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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old June 11 2013, 04:59 PM   #31
Sran
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Re: riker's choices

Pavonis wrote: View Post
What exactly did Picard do with Stargazer that was so "outstanding"? If Picard really did command (and not just serve on) Stargazer for 22 years, it was probably a mostly humdrum and uneventful service.
It's not clear how Picard distinguished himself as her captain. What's known is that Picard gained command of the vessel at a young age due to the previous captain's death. Picard's biography states that he was born in 2305. The incident in which he took command of the Stargazer's bridge happened in 2333. The Stargazer was lost in 2355.

Picard may not have been promoted directly to captain after the incident, but may have instead been promoted to full commander before earning the rank of captain at a later date. He could still have captained the vessel, however, as one need not hold the rank of captain to serve as a ship's master. This being the case, several years may have passed before he actually earned the rank of captain, in which case Starfleet would not have promoted him immediately after his assignment on the Stargazer was over: that he lost the ship makes a promotion even less likely.

Nine years is a long time to go without a command. An officer with the rank of captain may serve in other capacities, however. Perhaps Picard had other assignments that drew his interest before the Enterprise presented itself.

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Old June 11 2013, 05:01 PM   #32
Blackhorse47
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Re: riker's choices

Riker's actions on the Pegasus must figure in this somewhere. The implication was that his actions were so bad he could get court-martialed, so perhaps he figured keeping his head down as second in command was the best way of avoiding being compromised later.

Either way, he got the worst of both worlds. He waited for Picard to go for fourteen years, and then gave up waiting and went elsewhere.
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Old June 11 2013, 05:08 PM   #33
Pavonis
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Re: riker's choices

If Riker was trying to keep a low profile because of his support of Pressman during the Pegasus mutiny, he did a crappy job of it. He rose from ensign to commander in, what, 7 or 8 years? That's a meteoric rise that was sure to get attention. Maybe Pressman had something to so with his climb to the top, maybe just to get Riker sent off into the wilderness and far away from him. But apparently Riker just wouldn't take a ship!
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Old June 11 2013, 05:11 PM   #34
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Re: riker's choices

Blackhorse47 wrote: View Post
Riker's actions on the Pegasus must figure in this somewhere. The implication was that his actions were so bad he could get court-martialed, so perhaps he figured keeping his head down as second in command was the best way of avoiding being compromised later.
No doubt. The incident with the Pegasus came to light in 2370. Riker was awarded the Titan in 2379. The intervening years saw conflicts with the Borg, the Dominion, and the Klingons. Riker almost certainly would not have been given a command so soon after Pegasus. He had plenty of chances to distinguish himself following that, however, so it's not surprising that Starfleet would give him another chance after enough time had passed.

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Old June 11 2013, 05:26 PM   #35
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Re: riker's choices

Pavonis wrote: View Post
If Riker was trying to keep a low profile because of his support of Pressman during the Pegasus mutiny, he did a crappy job of it. He rose from ensign to commander in, what, 7 or 8 years? That's a meteoric rise that was sure to get attention. Maybe Pressman had something to so with his climb to the top, maybe just to get Riker sent off into the wilderness and far away from him. But apparently Riker just wouldn't take a ship!
The Pegasus mutiny was covered up until Riker came forward. It's likely that only a few people in Starfleet knew the details of what happened. Picard used up several favors just to see a preliminary report on the ship's disappearance.

If anything, Riker probably reasoned that he should do everything possible to distinguish himself in order to extinguish any doubts about his trustworthiness following the loss of the Pegasus. Pressman may have played a role in helping Riker find another posting, but Riker still had to perform well enough to earn the promotions he received.

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Old June 11 2013, 06:08 PM   #36
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Re: riker's choices

What does that say about Kirk, who spent the majority of his career commanding an obsolete Enterprise?
That he was a has-been for most of those years, and an outright outcast for some of them.

Picard is hardly unique in having lost his vessel. He commanded the Stargazer for more than twenty years before it disappeared. He had ample time to bolster his resume: one incident wouldn't diminish several years of service to Starfleet.
Definitely so. It's just that we only ever hear of his one screw-up and never of how he made amends in the following nine years.

What's known is that Picard gained command of the vessel at a young age due to the previous captain's death. Picard's biography states that he was born in 2305. The incident in which he took command of the Stargazer's bridge happened in 2333. The Stargazer was lost in 2355.
Alas, very little of this ever made it to the actual episodes. Certainly the past about Picard gaining command due to his skipper's death directly is apocryphal, and his young age is but one interpretation possible from the dialogue of "Conspiracy".

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Old June 11 2013, 06:22 PM   #37
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Re: riker's choices

Timo wrote: View Post
Certainly the past about Picard gaining command due to his skipper's death directly is apocryphal...
Actually, it's not. In "Tapestry," Q allows Picard to see how his life would have turned out had the stabbing incident with the Nausicaans never happened. Picard is horrified to find himself trapped in a dead-end job as an astrophysicist. He confronts Q, who says that because the stabbing incident never took place, Picard never developed the courage and resolve needed to get noticed by his superiors. It's then that Q mentions Picard saving an ambassador and taking command of Stargazer's bridge after the death of its captain. It's not clear when this happened, but it's clear that it did.

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Old June 11 2013, 06:27 PM   #38
Pavonis
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Re: riker's choices

Taking command of the bridge during a crisis is not the same as assuming permanent command of the vessel.
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Old June 11 2013, 06:36 PM   #39
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Re: riker's choices

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Taking command of the bridge during a crisis is not the same as assuming permanent command of the vessel.
No, but it's not a stretch to see how such an incident resulted in his eventually getting the vessel. What can be inferred about the event is that Picard was the highest ranking officer on the bridge at the time the captain died. Assuming command of the vessel was the appropriate thing to do. He may not have earned permanent command right away because of his rank, but his actions would surely have resulted in a commendation or promotion, putting him on the fast-track for the center seat.

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Old June 11 2013, 06:40 PM   #40
Pavonis
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Re: riker's choices

How fast, though? He was a captain by at least 2354, but that may have been the first year he was captain. We really know very little about Picard's career.
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Old June 11 2013, 06:43 PM   #41
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Re: riker's choices

Pavonis wrote: View Post
How fast, though? He was a captain by at least 2354, but that may have been the first year he was captain. We really know very little about Picard's career.
Picard himself said that he was captain of the Stargazer for more than twenty years.

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Old June 11 2013, 06:47 PM   #42
Pavonis
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Re: riker's choices

Citation, please. I could check out the episodes on Netflix, one-by-one, or even review the transcripts at chekoteya.net, but I'll let you handle that, since you're the one with the memory of him saying that.
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Old June 11 2013, 06:49 PM   #43
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Re: riker's choices

It might have been "Relics"
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Old June 11 2013, 07:06 PM   #44
Pavonis
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Re: riker's choices

The only mention of Stargazer in "Relics" is that it was the first ship that Picard served on as captain. Doesn't say how long he served as captain or when he became captain.

In fact, after a quick search at chakoteya.net, I can't find anything that says "served as captain of Stargazer for twenty-two years". Memory Alpha makes the claim, citing "The Battle" and "Tapestry" as sources, but the transcripts of those episodes don't indicate any length of service as captain, either.
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Old June 11 2013, 07:06 PM   #45
Sran
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Re: riker's choices

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Citation, please. I could check out the episodes on Netflix, one-by-one, or even review the transcripts at chekoteya.net, but I'll let you handle that, since you're the one with the memory of him saying that.
Picard's biography from Memory Alpha.

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