RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,795
Posts: 5,325,658
Members: 24,548
Currently online: 466
Newest member: wrestlefreak36

TrekToday headlines

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

New Trek Home Fashions
By: T'Bonz on Jul 4

Star Trek Pop-Ups Book Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3

Cho: More On Selfie
By: T'Bonz on Jul 3


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 8 2013, 06:32 PM   #16
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: riker's choices

It would be easy to imagine Riker receiving a commendation of some kind, big presentation ceremony on Earth, the Starfleet chief of staff pinning it on Riker's chest, we just didn't see it.

And Daddy Riker in the crowd taking credit for his son's actions.

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Removed to where? Another XO position on another starship?
Basically removed to a location where he wasn't blocking the flow anymore.

Maybe a starbase staff position somewhere, he'd still get his fourth pip on his collar, but not a ship.


Last edited by T'Girl; June 8 2013 at 06:51 PM.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 8 2013, 07:16 PM   #17
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: riker's choices

Who says they didn't? Besides after BOBW I suspect he asked to remain as XO.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 11:45 AM   #18
MikeS
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Liverpool, UK
Re: riker's choices

After BOBW I would surmise that Starfleet felt they owed him whatever he asked for, which happened to be remaining as XO on the 1701-D.
__________________
One day soon, man is going to be able to harness incredible energies, energies that could ultimately hurl us to other worlds in... some sort of spaceship.
MikeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 12:32 PM   #19
Tiberius
Commodore
 
Re: riker's choices

Timo wrote: View Post
The first turning down was probably a smart career move, as there might be better opportunities for making your mark as the XO of a big starship than as the CO of a small one.

The later ones... Well, Riker turned down the Melbourne at a time he was the king of the Starfleet hill, and nothing, bar nothing, could have reflected negatively on his career. The Aries thing is probably the most significant one here - and it seems related to Riker sorting out his father issues. He's finally left his biological father behind him, and accepted Picard as his adoptive one, so it makes sense to cling on to the good thing and stick with Picard, even if this harms Riker's career.

Without the father issues, any officer would probably choose differently at that particular junction.

Timo Saloniemi
Reluctant as I am to agree with you, this makes quite a bit of sense to me. Riker sees Picard as a mentor, and a guide to the adult world of Starship Captaincy after the adolescence of first-officer-hood.

And it certainly adds depth to the way Riker reacts to Picard's apparent death in Gambit.
Tiberius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 12:44 PM   #20
Dream
Admiral
 
Dream's Avatar
 
Re: riker's choices

Still better than being stuck as Ensign for 7 years.
__________________
=)
Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 01:33 PM   #21
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: riker's choices

T'Girl wrote: View Post
It would be easy to imagine Riker receiving a commendation of some kind, big presentation ceremony on Earth, the Starfleet chief of staff pinning it on Riker's chest, we just didn't see it.

And Daddy Riker in the crowd taking credit for his son's actions.

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Removed to where? Another XO position on another starship?
Basically removed to a location where he wasn't blocking the flow anymore.

Maybe a starbase staff position somewhere, he'd still get his fourth pip on his collar, but not a ship.

Whilst this might not be the case with Riker.

Some people are better suited to a number two role. Are you saying that every person who is that role should be moved aside?
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 01:42 PM   #22
Trek Survivor
Captain
 
Location: UK
Re: riker's choices

Dream wrote: View Post
So why didn't Starfleet ever give Riker a medal for his actions in BOBW?
Um, who said they didn't?

In "Chain of Command", Picard or Jellico mention how many times Riker's been decorated (did they say 5? I forget, it was several anyway). This doesn't mean dressed up in tinsel, you know. It means recognition/awards etc - one was almost undoubtedly for the Borg affair.
__________________
Want an awesome read? Check out "Showdown: A Darker Evil Rising" on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Showdown-Darke...er+evil+rising
Trek Survivor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 10:16 PM   #23
Mojochi
Commodore
 
Mojochi's Avatar
 
Re: riker's choices

R. Star wrote: View Post
Or he was holding out on Picard retiring or getting promoted to a desk.
It's fairly obvious that was the case, going by the line at the end of Generations where he says he always thought he'd have a crack at the ENT-D Captain's chair

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Having something equal to a galaxy class as your first command might have been an unreasonable expectation on Riker's part.
I tend to think this has merit too. He passed up a command to initially take the XO spot on the Enterprise, & then turned down 2 more before the events of BoBW, even then after being told outright he'd likely have his choice of any available captaincy, he remains aboard

Either he's a big wuss without the balls to take the job, which I think is not likely in his case, or It's more likely that he's got his eye on Picard's captaincy & expects him to retire or become an admiral, which is a sound notion, because Picard had been offered promotion in the show's time too

However, I'd really tend to think it wouldn't work that way. Why would they give you the flagship on your first command? What's more likely to expect is what Picard did with the Stargazer, & what he told Riker he should be doing when they offered the Aries. Get you a little ship & head out to the farthest reaches of space & relish in being the captain of your own ship carving into the universe

That's what a guy who wants to be captain does. Riker seems like he's more interested in being a star than traveling them. Being Captain of the Enterprise is a prestige grab, & he's all about that, imho
Mojochi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 11:32 PM   #24
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: riker's choices

Riker liked the spotlight, eh? That's believable. Sailing out to the unknown aboard Aries wouldn't have lead to much glory, would it... though it did work for Kirk, so maybe it's all in the ship's name.
Pavonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11 2013, 01:04 AM   #25
Mojochi
Commodore
 
Mojochi's Avatar
 
Re: riker's choices

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Riker liked the spotlight, eh? That's believable. Sailing out to the unknown aboard Aries wouldn't have lead to much glory, would it... though it did work for Kirk, so maybe it's all in the ship's name.
Yeah, there's two schools of thought on that though. It's kind of hard to have all of Starfleet kissing your ass as the top dog captain, when you're on deep space assignment in the ass end of space. That's why there are stages in a captain's career. Kirk did his time in deep space, & so Did Picard. The recognition comes afterward, like admiralty, celebrity or flagship commands, once the tales of their adventures are spread around

Riker seemingly wants to skip over that as if his experience as Picard's XO counts the same, & jump straight to the glory gigs, when in reality his adventures are as a crew member in the shadow of Picard. He wants the accolades of a man he's never been. He ain't Kirk or Picard, until he has run his own ship & crew out to the edge of the known galaxy & made some history for himself

This is all really conjecture though, based on nothing but my observations of the character's actions & behavior. He's a prestige hog, & I guess a deep space gig on the little known Aries wasn't shiny enough for William T. Riker. What he seems to not know is the command is what you make of it. that's how the Enterprise name became legendary to begin with
Mojochi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11 2013, 01:20 AM   #26
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: riker's choices

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Wasn't he also offered command of the Drake before taking the posting as First Officer of the Enterprise? The man just seemed unwilling to sit in the big chair! Who gets offered command four times before accepting one??
Yes, he was offered the Drake before it went to Paul Rice. It's not clear why Riker declined the chance to have a ship of his own. Had TNG ended sooner, it's possible he would have been promoted before any movies were produced. I remember there being talk about his being promoted before Insurrection, as well. He finally accepted promotion because Starfleet told him that he wouldn't get another offer if he turned the Titan down.

As Nemesis was the last TNG film, it didn't make sense to keep him on the Enterprise with so many other characters departing: it would have been interesting had Picard sacrficed himself instead of Data, which would have elevated Riker to captain of the Enterprise, the post he wanted all along.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11 2013, 01:32 AM   #27
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: riker's choices

Mojochi wrote: View Post
It's fairly obvious that was the case, going by the line at the end of Generations where he says he always thought he'd have a crack at the ENT-D Captain's chair
This is the most likely explanation. Riker probably reasoned that he'd be more likely to get the Enterprise if he stayed aboard and allowed Picard to turn the ship over to him when he retired from Starfleet.

Mojochi wrote:
However, I'd really tend to think it wouldn't work that way. Why would they give you the flagship on your first command? What's more likely to expect is what Picard did with the Stargazer, & what he told Riker he should be doing when they offered the Aries. Get you a little ship & head out to the farthest reaches of space & relish in being the captain of your own ship carving into the universe
Riker may have been concerned that he wouldn't get another shot at the Enterprise if he left the ship before Picard gave up of the vessel. What he didn't take into consideration is your point about being able to distinguish oneself by commanding another ship.

Picard wasn't simply given the Enterprise. He earned it due to his outstanding service record aboard the Stargazer. He was already a legendary figure before he commanded Enterprise. Riker's status as the ship's executive officer earned him a great deal of noteriety and respect in the service, but the Enterprise was never his ship. Even in Picard's absence, Riker was viewed merely as a place-holder until JLP returned. He would have been better served by taking a command like the Aries and using that as a springboard to better command in the future. He certainly could have gotten another ship once the Aries' voyage to Beta Omicron was over.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11 2013, 04:35 PM   #28
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: riker's choices

Picard wasn't simply given the Enterprise. He earned it due to his outstanding service record aboard the Stargazer. He was already a legendary figure before he commanded Enterprise.
Was he, now?

He wasn't being given any new starships during the time he was aboard the Stargazer. If he spent just five years commanding the old relic, fine. But if he were stuck as the CO of an outdated tub for more than a decade, it actually makes him a loser.

And speaking of losing, among the things he lost was his starship. Is that really a recommendation?

The mechanism by which Picard got the Enterprise was never properly explored in the episodes or movies. Perhaps getting the Federation Flagship is primarily a matter of knowing the right people, or being an acclaimed diplomat who also happens to be on Starfleet payroll in some suitable capacity, one of these being starship CO. Riker wouldn't have these paths open to him if the E-D really was his one goal in life.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11 2013, 04:45 PM   #29
Sran
Fleet Captain
 
Sran's Avatar
 
Location: The Captain's Table
Re: riker's choices

Timo wrote: View Post
He wasn't being given any new starships during the time he was aboard the Stargazer. If he spent just five years commanding the old relic, fine. But if he were stuck as the CO of an outdated tub for more than a decade, it actually makes him a loser.
What does that say about Kirk, who spent the majority of his career commanding an obsolete Enterprise?

Timo wrote:
And speaking of losing, among the things he lost was his starship. Is that really a recommendation?
Picard is hardly unique in having lost his vessel. He commanded the Stargazer for more than twenty years before it disappeared. He had ample time to bolster his resume: one incident wouldn't diminish several years of service to Starfleet.

Timo wrote:
The mechanism by which Picard got the Enterprise was never properly explored in the episodes or movies. Perhaps getting the Federation Flagship is primarily a matter of knowing the right people, or being an acclaimed diplomat who also happens to be on Starfleet payroll in some suitable capacity, one of these being starship CO. Riker wouldn't have these paths open to him if the E-D really was his one goal in life.
The Sky's the Limit is a collection of TNG short stories. One of them is about Captain Thomas Halloway, who presided over Enterprise-D's construction at Utopia Planitia. Halloway was offered command of the vessel but turned it down because he didn't want to uproot his family from Earth. Admiral Satie accepted his decision, as she'd known for some time that he wasn't going to take the assignment. Satie already had Picard's name in mind, citing his experience as a starship captain as a the primary reason for her interest.

Novels and short stories aren't cannon, but this scenario is certainly plausible.

--Sran
__________________
"Many things seem clever to an imbecile." --Captain Thelin th'Valrass, USS Enterprise-- "The Chimes at Midnight"
Sran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 11 2013, 04:46 PM   #30
Pavonis
Commodore
 
Re: riker's choices

What exactly did Picard do with Stargazer that was so "outstanding"? The only notable incident with the old rust bucket, i.e., something they cover at the Academy, was the development of the Picard Maneuver, and that was in a battle that was a draw at best, a loss for Picard at worst, since he misplaced an entire starship after the battle!

If Picard really did command (and not just serve on) Stargazer for 22 years, it was probably a mostly humdrum and uneventful service.
Pavonis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.