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Old June 8 2013, 01:06 PM   #571
Christopher
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

intrinsical wrote: View Post
Also, players assumed that there will be a lot more tie-ins with the show itself and were greatly disappointed when only half the episodes had tie-ins with the show and the tie-ins were a measly 5-minute "find data recorders" type missions.
That wasn't really a reasonable thing to expect, though. There's only going to be limited overlap between the game's audience and the show's audience; the whole point of doing a franchise in more than one medium is to draw in two distinct, if overlapping, audiences and thus get a bigger total audience base. So a lot of people who play the game won't watch the show, and a lot of people who watch the show won't play the game. Therefore both the show and the game have to be able to stand alone to be comprehensible to those who don't follow both. Not to mention that the needs of a story and the needs of a game are very different. Stories have to follow a certain logic of plot and character, cause and effect, and modern TV series are expected to have strong continuity and coherent season-long arcs. So there was no way the writing on the show could actually have been influenced or changed by events in the game, since that would've made the storytelling too random.

So really, it was misleading for the game's advertising to claim that the players' actions in the game would influence the show. The best they ever could've done was to give the illusion of influence, by having the players act out a scenario leading to a result that the show's writers had already dictated (like the opening game sequence where you play a mission to acquire a crystal and then have Nolan steal it in a cut scene because he has it at the start of the pilot). Or to have characters who've already played their part on the show, like Rynn, become characters in the game.
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Old June 8 2013, 04:53 PM   #572
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

You misunderstood me. I wasn't referring to the lack of tie-in with the show. I was referring to the laziness and sloppiness of the game's "episode" missions. So far the devs have not even been willing to define what an episode mission is or what frequency do episode missions occur. For instance, the show's already at episode 7 but the game is only at episode 4. The lack of clarity is frustrating.

Worse, episode 2 was just to find a handful of data recorders scattered around the game world with no clues provided to players. I bet that mission took the devs less than a day to implement and certainly it took me less than half an hour to pick them up after scouring the web for their locations. My point is, if they wanted to introduce episode missions in the game, the episode missions should be fun, substantial and doesn't need to be tied with the show. Now, this week's episode mission of plague sieges, that's fun. More epsiodes like the plague and the game wouldn't be loosing as many players.
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Old June 8 2013, 06:32 PM   #573
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

Okay, I can't follow what you're saying until you explain to me how "episode mission" is defined. Is it a mission that ties into an episode of the show? Or is it a mission that constitutes some kind of "episode" within the game, and if so, what does that mean and how is it different from other types of gameplay?
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Old June 11 2013, 11:45 AM   #574
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

I Just Wasn't Made for These Times: Bwahaha we should have seen the word "made" in the title and guessed the whole reveal. Anyway, the important stuff..





I was writing a wonderful post about pubic hair in my head during this scene when suddenly it was revealed she was bathing in some flim flam lederhosen thing which is RIDICULOUS. Or maybe she's trying to mitigate her sin of bathing alone? Look here, I'm not really doing this, I have sorta clothes on! Yeah that's it.

Hey we got the answer to last week's big question.

Stahma to Kenya: ".. and for a Castithan man wearing a cuckold's horns is a great shaming." So if you're going to cuckold a Castithan make sure you don't knee him in the balls while you do it, keep him close and satisfied. Cuckold, there's the answer.

The doctor storyline was interesting. It shows you how much they need a doctor that they have to put up with her keeping such a thing from them.

The whole deal with the astronaut returning to his much older wife.. seriously? The 28 year old wife of a cutting edge hero astronaut who dies, famous forever, and she doesn't find someone else? Of course she finds someone else. She is a beautiful A list woman. That was dumb. Also does he tell her about his silver blood?! Because we are waaaaay past clones here in terms of accepting the dead person is alive.


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Old June 11 2013, 12:21 PM   #575
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

And does he have to get tied up before he goes to sleep every night?

More importantly.

Is he Patient Zero?
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Old June 11 2013, 02:31 PM   #576
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

teacake wrote: View Post
I Just Wasn't Made for These Times: Bwahaha we should have seen the word "made" in the title and guessed the whole reveal. Anyway, the important stuff..
Yeah, I'm kind of kicking myself in retrospect for missing that one. I thought it was purely a "man out of time" reference.

I was writing a wonderful post about pubic hair in my head during this scene when suddenly it was revealed she was bathing in some flim flam lederhosen thing which is RIDICULOUS. Or maybe she's trying to mitigate her sin of bathing alone? Look here, I'm not really doing this, I have sorta clothes on! Yeah that's it.
I thought in last week's episode Alak made reference to a flimsy piece of clothing that Christie would be wearing while bathing and therefore not be totally naked. That's what I figured Stahma was wearing.

The doctor storyline was interesting. It shows you how much they need a doctor that they have to put up with her keeping such a thing from them.
They hinted at this earlier and it is an interesting line to follow: do you get rid of your healer if you suspect they were a war criminal? Even if it means giving up your best bet at healing people (and she must be damned good if Tommy can go from being in a coma last episode to being up and moving 2 days later...).

The whole deal with the astronaut returning to his much older wife.. seriously? The 28 year old wife of a cutting edge hero astronaut who dies, famous forever, and she doesn't find someone else? Of course she finds someone else. She is a beautiful A list woman. That was dumb. Also does he tell her about his silver blood?! Because we are waaaaay past clones here in terms of accepting the dead person is alive.
Maybe she found someone new and they died during the Pale Wars, leading her to decide she was better off alone than being with a third person who would die. Maybe she was with someone else and they died naturally. We don't know. What's dumb is the whole cliched "I'm hanging clothes and I sense that my long lost lover is back" trope (maybe he spoke to her, I don't know, I just read it as her "sensing" he was back).

The whole thing was vague. For all we know, he did throw himself into the mines and what we saw was just Amanda's romanticized version of what she thought happened. I know it was heavily hinting that he did survive and just left Defiance, but it wasn't clear one way or the other.


With the recent game commercials, I guess it was inevitable the plague would hit the show. I guess it's just frustrating that the show lacks a sense of cohesiveness. While someone up thread mentioned Warehouse 13 being the best it's going to be because they stick to the "artifact of the week" plots, at least it has a sense of what kind of show it is. Defiance, to me, suffers because it's just one plot event after another that distracts from what they set up in the pilot.

The "Romeo and Juliet" plot of Alak and Christie only gets mentions here and there and the tension of the McCauley/Tarr feud is all but gone. All chances of Irisia being interesting are gone for me, because every time they do something interesting with her character, the next episode's plot makes what happened to her a "C" story, at best. The mayoral election they keep teasing (both in the show and the previews), which could have been an interesting "B" plot in a string of episodes (not only giving Amanda something to do, other than fight off sleazy E-Rep people, but also finding a way to make the McCauley/Tarr feud interesting), now seems to be something they're going to shoehorn into a season finale. McCauley and Nolan not liking each other is totally gone, replaced by Nolan not trusting him, but hey, he's got good alcohol and remembers some of the stuff I remember.

And now, "The Doc was a War Criminal" is going to be snowed under by "Only She Can Save Us From the Plague."

Oh and then there's the ex-Mayor popping up every once in a while being evil, which leads me to wonder if the people of Defiance knew this about her beforehand. She's pretty open about her plans, even going as far in the pilot to talk about them in a diner. And no one even seems to be shocked that their seemingly kind, grandmotherly ex-mayor has a gaping hole where her heart should be. Rafe wasn't surprised at all by her last episode. The only one who seemed to buy what the ex-Mayor was selling is Amanda. I would love an episode where everyone finds out that she was behind the Volge attack. Then I'd love Rafe, Datak, Doc Yewll, Kenya, etc. all saying, "Yeah, we knew that bitch was evil," while Amanda goes, "But she was always so nice to me..."

All interesting plots that lead to dramatic tension are undone by the need to keep putting forth new and "exciting" plots in each episode. I was thrilled to hear the plot for last week's episode. I thought the inherent drama in forcing groups to remain in-doors would provide lots of tension. Imagine Rafe and Datak having to spend time together. The ex-Mayor and Quentin playing cat-and-mouse. Christie and Stahma together. Nolan, walking in on Tommy and Irisia, just as they are told not to leave the premises. Or, instead of that, have Tommy and Irisia just finish having sex when the announcement is made and now they have to talk to each other, and figure out what is going on between them. That would leave Nolan free to be with Amanda, stuck together, fueling the "will-they-won't-they" as they begin arguing over Kenya, then over Nolan's predilection for doing what he wants, and his killing Pol Madis, and then realize their feelings, just as the threat ends and they come to their senses.

Now that could have served to advance many of the plots that were introduced and then left to wither and die. Sure a lot of what I mentioned is pretty cliche, but it's cliche because it serves its purpose, story-wise.

If Defiance is going to keep me, they are going to have to start addressing some of the plots they introduced, instead of trying for the next and biggest thing.
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Old June 11 2013, 02:52 PM   #577
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

teacake wrote: View Post
The whole deal with the astronaut returning to his much older wife.. seriously? The 28 year old wife of a cutting edge hero astronaut who dies, famous forever, and she doesn't find someone else? Of course she finds someone else. She is a beautiful A list woman. That was dumb.
Why? Even if she did marry someone else, that doesn't mean she wouldn't still be overjoyed to see her old love apparently back from the dead. Besides, how do we know the "someone else" didn't die in the terraforming, or leave her, or get left by her?


shivkala wrote: View Post
I thought in last week's episode Alak made reference to a flimsy piece of clothing that Christie would be wearing while bathing and therefore not be totally naked. That's what I figured Stahma was wearing.
He mentioned beads, which we have seen Stahma wearing in the bath before, in the pilot or episode 2. This was a different garment, more a pair of fabric straps spirit-gummed over her not-fit-for-TV bits.


The doctor storyline was interesting. It shows you how much they need a doctor that they have to put up with her keeping such a thing from them.
They hinted at this earlier and it is an interesting line to follow: do you get rid of your healer if you suspect they were a war criminal?
Actually that hasn't been resolved yet. Nolan was just confronting her, demanding she account for her war crimes, when the woman came in and fell sick. (And yeah, Yewll must be a hell of a doctor if she can deduce a plague from a single sick patient.) Presumably this thread will play out next week as Yewll's indispensability during the plague convinces the others to excuse her past crimes.


What's dumb is the whole cliched "I'm hanging clothes and I sense that my long lost lover is back" trope (maybe he spoke to her, I don't know, I just read it as her "sensing" he was back).
She could've heard him walking through the grass, or turned enough to glimpse movement out of the corner of her eye.
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Old June 11 2013, 03:01 PM   #578
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

I liked this week's episode, primarily for all the little character moments. Such as Nolan and Tommy's banter at the beginning about Moby Dick, and Datak making a complete douche out of himself at the brothel. I was going to comment that Kenya refusing Datak was only going to raise his suspicions, but that's something that gets pointed out in the episode itself so I'll let it slide.

When I first heard the plot description of this episode I was a bit wary. An astronaut from the past. I figured he'd have trouble adjusting to the new world, throw some sort of fit and have to be neutralized in some manner. I wasn't expecting him to be some sort of experimental assassin, which to me was a pretty decent twist and now we get some details about Dr. Yewll's dark past hinted at a few weeks back. However, I could have done without the sappy ending of the astronaut being reunited with his wife. But then, I'm just not a romantic guy.

Nitpick, isn't the astronaut a bit too young to be a commander? According to IMDB Brian J Smith is 32, assuming the character is around the same age (his wife was 28), this would make him too young to be either a Navy officer ranked Commander or someone who holds the title Commander due to their position commanding a space mission. They tend to be really experienced astronauts.
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Old June 11 2013, 03:16 PM   #579
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

Maybe this isn't the first prototype to come look her up?

She could have married another one 20 years earlier, who is sitting inisde her house with a shot gun on his lap willing to direct this johnny come lately back the way he came.

Whoever was aware of this script must have shat themselves when they saw Oblivion. This is easily the best episode of the series so far but unfortunately Tom ####ing Cruise nutted them to the punch by 3 months.
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Old June 11 2013, 03:18 PM   #580
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

What gets me is, given that horrific crash we saw at the end of the last episode, how could the flimsy plastic bag the guy was hanging in have possibly survived the impact?
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Old June 11 2013, 04:02 PM   #581
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

You can drop an unboiled chicken egg to no ill effect from a 4 story building if it's inside a cardboard box suspended in pantyhose.

Bad enough things happen in Earth labs that they can have, or should have independent lifesupport. On an alien ship however that life support might include independent structural integrity fields and inertial dampeners... How do spaceships work in this fiction? Did they use hyperspace, warp realspace or use relativistic speed.

The trip took 5000 years.

Even if relativistically the trip took a month from their perspective, they'd still use suspended animation rather than figure out how to carry additional food and water for millions of people for one month.

Did any one stay awake for portions of the trip if it did take 5000 years flat?
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Old June 11 2013, 08:58 PM   #582
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

Christopher wrote: View Post
What gets me is, given that horrific crash we saw at the end of the last episode, how could the flimsy plastic bag the guy was hanging in have possibly survived the impact?
Inertial dampeners.
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Old June 11 2013, 09:17 PM   #583
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

[QUOTE=Christopher;8232085]
He mentioned beads, which we have seen Stahma wearing in the bath before, in the pilot or episode 2. This was a different garment, more a pair of fabric straps spirit-gummed over her not-fit-for-TV bits.
[QUOTE]

Ah, thanks. I wonder if the beads serve another function, other than just decoration, then, if she chose not to wear them while bathing alone.

Actually that hasn't been resolved yet. Nolan was just confronting her, demanding she account for her war crimes, when the woman came in and fell sick. (And yeah, Yewll must be a hell of a doctor if she can deduce a plague from a single sick patient.) Presumably this thread will play out next week as Yewll's indispensability during the plague convinces the others to excuse her past crimes.
That does seem to be the way to go. However, minus the blood, Yewll was treating a patient when Nolan entered and making disapproving noises. Having seen the game commercials, I assumed that patient had symptoms of the plague (possibly very early symptoms that could have been plague-related or just as easily some other virus/illness). Then the woman came in with definitive symptoms, which only confirmed it for Yewll. The game trailer (see below) hints at them trying to warn someone about the outbreak (The trailer makes it clear that a group nearby heard it, but I don't know if it was for them or broadcast for a larger audience). Yewll might have heard the warning and knew it would only be a matter of time before it hit Defiance, therefore, instead of diagnosing a plague based on one patient, she could have been using the information in the warning. Being Indogene, she might have been hooked up to some technology which allowed her to receive information quicker. Perhaps her technological implants allow for communication with other Indogenes, quite possible the one who dies in the trailer.



Apparently, this is Defiance's way of bringing zombies or zombie-like creatures into the show/game.

She could've heard him walking through the grass, or turned enough to glimpse movement out of the corner of her eye.
Well, that's my point, it didn't seem a "I see movement" type of reaction, but more of a "I know that's Gordon" reaction. Again, I'm allowing for him saying something that we couldn't hear, but either way, it's cliche. I'm still wondering if it's real or Amanda's fantasy of what's happening. The show did play it as if it was real, but they stopped short of making it definitive.
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Old June 11 2013, 10:59 PM   #584
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

I'm wondering how Stahma gets upstairs into Kenya's boudoir unseen.

There must be back routes or pulley driven lifts for important people that don't want to be known to be frequenting the Need Want. Certainly even if the Need Want is a bar used by locals who have no interest in the brothel side of it it's not a place that Stahma would ever go. Even thought those that work there would no how to keep their mouths shut for business the gossip from other customoers would explode if she was seen there with any regularity.

Show us the hidden passage!!
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Old June 12 2013, 02:22 AM   #585
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Re: The Defiance Thread - News about the Show and Game

Well, it wasn't much a surprise that Doc was revealed to be an Evil Scientist during the Pale Wars, but I still like it.

And Zombies? Sure, why not? As things are going now it will probably be revealed that it was all a biological weapon created by our dear Doc and all hell will break loose between the Votans and the Earth Republic and Defiance is caught in the middle.

This weeks Doc: "Cool it Tiger. I'm too old for you."

And the episode was channeling Star Wars a few times:

"You want me to join the evil empire?"
"We're not an empire! You will be given regional governership."

"Control your hatred!"

Oh, and I think Defiance is a bit bitter that it is not on HBO. There is a lot of bathing but since there can't be sex they'll talk alot about sex instead WHILE bathing.
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