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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old June 10 2013, 03:42 PM   #226
EliyahuQeoni
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

But why move the Eugenics Wars? They are perfectly fine in the 1990s, where they were explicitly said to take place. Sure, Roddenberry and Company didn't set out to make an Alternate History, but that doesn't mean that Trek can't become one. There is nothing about Trek that precludes it not being our future. I've heard this argument before that if Trek doesn't represent our actual future than all the "meaning" is lost, which is a load of garbage.
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Old June 10 2013, 05:14 PM   #227
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Trek is our future in the same way that most TV shows and films are set in our world - i.e. "pretty much but not quite"
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Old June 11 2013, 01:02 AM   #228
Nerys Myk
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
But why move the Eugenics Wars? They are perfectly fine in the 1990s, where they were explicitly said to take place. Sure, Roddenberry and Company didn't set out to make an Alternate History, but that doesn't mean that Trek can't become one. There is nothing about Trek that precludes it not being our future. I've heard this argument before that if Trek doesn't represent our actual future than all the "meaning" is lost, which is a load of garbage.
For me Star Trek being an alternate reality takes something away from the appeal of the show. YMMV.
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Old June 11 2013, 01:48 AM   #229
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
For me Star Trek being an alternate reality takes something away from the appeal of the show. YMMV.
Mine definitely varies.
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Old June 11 2013, 04:06 AM   #230
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
For me Star Trek being an alternate reality takes something away from the appeal of the show. YMMV.
Mine definitely varies.
Mine too. I'm totally not seeing what is taken away by Trek being an alternate reality from ours.
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Old June 11 2013, 04:26 AM   #231
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

The Chronology says:

Kirk was Captain of the Enterprise shortly before "Where No Man Has Gone Before". Then there was the "The Corbomite Maneuver". There was no five year mission before this.

This contradicts Dehner: "You've known Gary for years."

The Chronology says:

After the five year mission, Kirk became Admiral and the Enterprise spent 2 1/2 years being refitted. There was not another five year mission before TMP.

This contradicts TMP. Not one character says this. It has obviously been 11 years since "Turnabout Intruder" from the look of the actors.

The Chronology says:

TAS isn't canon.

Yes it is.
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Old June 11 2013, 04:31 AM   #232
Nerys Myk
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
For me Star Trek being an alternate reality takes something away from the appeal of the show. YMMV.
Mine definitely varies.
Mine too. I'm totally not seeing what is taken away by Trek being an alternate reality from ours.
Part of it is about what the "authors" intended and what they put on the screen. They always presented Star Trek as having the same past as what ever the present was. (be it Tomorrow Is Yesterday, The Voyage Home, Future's End or Carpenter St). The alternate reality explanation is just to fannish for my taste.
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Old June 11 2013, 04:45 AM   #233
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Kirk and Michell knew each other at the Academy. So Dehner's line isn't incorrect and neither is the assumption Kirk took command of the Enterprise shortly before Where No Man...
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Old June 11 2013, 05:02 AM   #234
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Mine definitely varies.
Mine too. I'm totally not seeing what is taken away by Trek being an alternate reality from ours.
Part of it is about what the "authors" intended and what they put on the screen. They always presented Star Trek as having the same past as what ever the present was. (be it Tomorrow Is Yesterday, The Voyage Home, Future's End or Carpenter St). The alternate reality explanation is just to fannish for my taste.
As some are fond of saying around here, "it's all fiction." And so I have no problem with that. Besides which the original creators' intent is now moot since history in the late 20th century did not unfold as they had speculated. That certainly doesn't ruin the series for me.
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Old June 11 2013, 05:04 AM   #235
Nerys Myk
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Isn't Spock who the "You've known Gary for years" line is directed at?

WNMHGB wrote:
KELSO: Well, it didn't make any sense that he'd know, but naturally, I checked out the circuit anyway. I don't know how, but he was right. This point is burned out exactly the way he described it.
DEHNER: Sorry I'm late. I became so interested in observing Gary, Mister Mitchell.
SPOCK: Our subject is not Gary Mitchell. Our concern is, rather, what he is mutating into.
DEHNER: I know those from your planet aren't suppose to have feelings like we do, Mister Spock, but to talk that way about a man you've worked next to for years is worse than
KIRK: That's enough, Doctor.
DEHNER: I don't think so. I understand you least of all. Gary told me that you've been friends since he joined the service, that you asked for him aboard your first command.
From this we know Spock and Mitchell have worked together for a while and Kirk has known Mitchell since he joined Starfleet.

So either Spock and Mitchell served together on a ship before the Enterprise or they've been on the Enterprise together for over a year ( or two). Which might mean Kirk was the CO of the Enterprise for a year or two prior to WNMHGB.

The Chronology is often too "on the nose" when it comes to dates.
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Old June 11 2013, 05:08 AM   #236
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post

Mine too. I'm totally not seeing what is taken away by Trek being an alternate reality from ours.
Part of it is about what the "authors" intended and what they put on the screen. They always presented Star Trek as having the same past as what ever the present was. (be it Tomorrow Is Yesterday, The Voyage Home, Future's End or Carpenter St). The alternate reality explanation is just to fannish for my taste.
As some are fond of saying around here, "it's all fiction." And so I have no problem with that. Besides which the original creators' intent is now moot since history in the late 20th century did not unfold as they had speculated. That certainly doesn't ruin the series for me.
Which why their "speculations" are ignored once they become outdated.

The Speculation is "bathwater", while Star Trek is the "baby". I say dump the bathwater once it's "dirty".
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Old June 11 2013, 05:32 AM   #237
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

No. The creators' intent remains intact if I accept it as is: their imagining the late 20th century evolving as they referenced onscreen regardless of how our history actually played out. I don't have to throw out anything other than all the things later Trek did to knowingly contradict what had been referenced on TOS.

In that I'm quite happy with the mileage I'm getting.
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Old June 11 2013, 05:50 AM   #238
Nerys Myk
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
No. The creators' intent remains intact if I accept it as is: their imagining the late 20th century evolving as they referenced onscreen regardless of how our history actually played out. I don't have to throw out anything other than all the things later Trek did to knowingly contradict what had been referenced on TOS.

In that I'm quite happy with the mileage I'm getting.
By "intent" I mean the the show in general, not the details of each episode. As I've said before, they saw Star Trek as our future not an alternate reality and would probably be more than happy to ignore their "predictions" if Star Trek (TOS if we must) had lasted into the late 20th Century.
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Old June 11 2013, 05:52 AM   #239
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
No. The creators' intent remains intact if I accept it as is: their imagining the late 20th century evolving as they referenced onscreen regardless of how our history actually played out. I don't have to throw out anything other than all the things later Trek did to knowingly contradict what had been referenced on TOS.

In that I'm quite happy with the mileage I'm getting.
By "intent" I mean the the show in general, not the details of each episode. As I've said before, they saw Star Trek as our future not an alternate reality and would probably be more than happy to ignore their "predictions" if Star Trek (TOS if we must) had lasted into the late 20th Century.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Old June 11 2013, 05:54 AM   #240
Nerys Myk
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Re: Do You Believe the Official Chronology?

I can agree to that.
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