RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,148
Posts: 5,343,663
Members: 24,595
Currently online: 519
Newest member: jagmegyan

TrekToday headlines

New Funko Trek Figure
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Saldana As A Role Model
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

San Diego Comic-Con Trek Fan Guide
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Cumberbatch As Turing
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Retro Review: In the Pale Moonlight
By: Michelle on Jul 19

Trek Beach Towel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 18

Two New Starships Collection Releases
By: T'Bonz on Jul 17

Giacchino Tour Arrives In North America
By: T'Bonz on Jul 17

IDW Publishing October Star Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Jul 16

Cho As Romantic Lead
By: T'Bonz on Jul 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 7 2013, 09:20 AM   #871
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post

R. Star:

Look, if you are facing certain death, someone offering you a 1 in 3 chance of survival might mean a great deal.
So what? That doesn't change the fact that getting summarily executed is any less wrong than being told you have to play Russian roulette for your life.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2013, 09:40 AM   #872
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

They couldn't control the authors bias, and if they used a randomizer, then they might as well have flipped a coin.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 12:06 AM   #873
Captain Kathryn
Commodore
 
Captain Kathryn's Avatar
 
Location: In Star Trek / Doctor Who fantasy land aka New Jersey
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Captain Kathryn
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Dang this thread is still going!?!?!?
__________________
Assimilate more Janeway...among other stuff! Captain Kathryn's Tumblr
Captain Kathryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 12:21 AM   #874
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Tuvix is dead!

This is his memorial thread.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 01:59 AM   #875
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Tuvix's murderer is sill alive.

This thread should be a bug hunt.

If some alien of the week had killed Tuvix, Kathy would have Ahabbed him (or her) good.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 02:08 AM   #876
Vulcan Logician
Lieutenant Commander
 
Vulcan Logician's Avatar
 
Location: In the realm of pure logic
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

teacake wrote: View Post
Tuvix is dead!

This is his memorial thread.


R. Star: Yeah, can see your point. Basically it was the moral dilemma that served as the theme to the episode. It is wrong either way you look at it. But what is LEAST wrong? My proposal tries to find the moral ground slightly higher than just "killing someone". There is no perfect solution. I thought that killing Tuvix was wrong. Nobody came to his defense while he was pleading for his life on the bridge... NOBODY. It's as if everyone was thinking "Look, Tuvix, everything has to be back to normal by the next episode. That's the way it works around here."

Long live Tuvix!
Vulcan Logician is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 09:22 AM   #877
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post
I thought that killing Tuvix was wrong. Nobody came to his defense while he was pleading for his life on the bridge... NOBODY. It's as if everyone was thinking "Look, Tuvix, everything has to be back to normal by the next episode. That's the way it works around here."
OR they were thinking, "you are so creepy to look at you make Neelix look good.."
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 10:07 AM   #878
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

That's just because you are a woman who was brought up to find men attractive.

It didn't stick, but you remember the indoctrination.

Men on the other hand, who are still straight, somehow, do not see beauty in other men.

(I'm sure I used this quote recently)

Daryl Mitchell's character said this when he was on the John Laroquette show on the topic of sharing a bed with John Laroquette... "I have three rules! I do not sleep with men! I do not sleep with white men! And I do not sleep with ugly white men!"

To a straight man, from the 20th century, watching Voyager, Tuvix is no more attractive or unattractive than anyother man on that ship.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 10:18 AM   #879
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
To a straight man, from the 20th century, watching Voyager, Tuvix is no more attractive or unattractive than anyother man on that ship.


I forgot men were so deficient!
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 10:31 AM   #880
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

The 20th century was a long time ago.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 10:38 AM   #881
Gov Kodos
Vice Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Much like Dariabar, then? As close as you think, and as far as you suppose?
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 11:10 PM   #882
Captain Kathryn
Commodore
 
Captain Kathryn's Avatar
 
Location: In Star Trek / Doctor Who fantasy land aka New Jersey
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Captain Kathryn
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

__________________
Assimilate more Janeway...among other stuff! Captain Kathryn's Tumblr
Captain Kathryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 11:28 PM   #883
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Captain Kathryn wrote: View Post
Tuvix became immortal the moment he was executed!

Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post

R. Star: Yeah, can see your point. Basically it was the moral dilemma that served as the theme to the episode. It is wrong either way you look at it. But what is LEAST wrong? My proposal tries to find the moral ground slightly higher than just "killing someone". There is no perfect solution. I thought that killing Tuvix was wrong. Nobody came to his defense while he was pleading for his life on the bridge... NOBODY. It's as if everyone was thinking "Look, Tuvix, everything has to be back to normal by the next episode. That's the way it works around here."

Long live Tuvix!
The thing of it is... Tuvok and Neelix died as it were in an accident. That's a tragedy but it's no one's fault. The unethical thing that gets to me is the notion that a military commander can just outright execute her subordinates if she perceives it as serving a greater good. Killing an innocent man, no matter the circumstances, cannot be described as ethical on any level. Janeway deciding to play god with another person's life is pretty much a supreme form of arrogance? Was it well intentioned? Probably, but that doesn't make it right. Is Tuvix a coward for not volunteering? Quite possibly so, he even said he was. But last I checked cowardice is not a capital crime. But yeah... the reset button had to be pushed. The moral dilemma of the episode was a great one, but it was also just brutal in how casually Tuvix was just tossed aside.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 11:44 PM   #884
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

NO? The episode Tuvix's complicated morality did pop up now and then, but not often and definitely not in the last episode, the The last episode was...

"I'm fucking fucking RIGHT!"

"NO, FUCK YOU! I'm RIGHT!"

"OH... Sorry, I forgot, Kathryn Janeway is always right, sorry."

Deuling Janeways.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 11 2013, 04:13 AM   #885
Vulcan Logician
Lieutenant Commander
 
Vulcan Logician's Avatar
 
Location: In the realm of pure logic
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

teacake wrote: View Post

OR they were thinking, "you are so creepy to look at you make Neelix look good.."
Yeah, I'm sure that played into it some. There was definitely something... off... about Tuvix.

R. Star wrote: View Post

The thing of it is... Tuvok and Neelix died as it were in an accident. That's a tragedy but it's no one's fault. The unethical thing that gets to me is the notion that a military commander can just outright execute her subordinates if she perceives it as serving a greater good. Killing an innocent man, no matter the circumstances, cannot be described as ethical on any level. Janeway deciding to play god with another person's life is pretty much a supreme form of arrogance? Was it well intentioned? Probably, but that doesn't make it right. Is Tuvix a coward for not volunteering? Quite possibly so, he even said he was. But last I checked cowardice is not a capital crime. But yeah... the reset button had to be pushed. The moral dilemma of the episode was a great one, but it was also just brutal in how casually Tuvix was just tossed aside.
I don't want to belabor this, but if Tuvok and Neelix were retrievable then they hadn't really died. I feel that Janeway (while not playing God by any measure) was perhaps influenced by her long affinity with Tuvok, as well as her friendship with Neelix. Nobody's perfect. While the ending was indeed a bit "brutal", it was also a breath of fresh air. Not every Trek episode needs to end with "the greater good has once again prevailed" or the standard deus ex machina. It caught me a little off guard and was entertaining as a result.
Vulcan Logician is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
janeway

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:03 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.