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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 10 2013, 08:14 PM   #1936
BillJ
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

mos6507 wrote: View Post
Phily B wrote: View Post
I feel like people saying "it's not Star Trek" have an idealised version, instead of an actual version that the rest of us watched.
People decide what they want to 'support' and put on rose-colored-glasses accordingly. That goes for purists and JJ fans alike.
Please.

People here have been more than honest about the flaws in the last two Trek movies, myself included.

What's tiresome is the "this isn't Star Trek!!!" and the "Star Trek never did that!!!" brigade.
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Old June 10 2013, 08:36 PM   #1937
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

johnjm22 wrote: View Post
even if it does a little better overseas
It's not doing a little better overseas, and you know it.


RAMA wrote: View Post
Youre figures are incorrect, ST09 is first with an inflation adjusted number of $274 million.
You can always tell what their agenda is when they try to sneak TMP into first place.



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Old June 10 2013, 08:36 PM   #1938
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

Fast and Furious changed its direction, by focusing less on car racing.

The question becomes, what has Star Trek to change for it to succeed? I think some people are thinking the change was too much, that it lost something of its quality when it was adapted to international markets.

For me, the quality that changed the most was the character of James Kirk. I once wrote a thread where I used a line from ST V and AB responded:

You mean, anything comparably adolescent, overblown, simpleminded and self-dramatizing?
To me, that is the definition of this new Kirk. I wouldn't follow this Kirk for a single day, let alone five years.

I can tell you something about the story arc of characters in IM3 or F6, but I can't tell you anything about those arcs for the characters in this new film. I don't feel the familiarity that some have expressed - that Kirk has gone through this arc before. I don't know what I feel for these characters.
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Old June 10 2013, 08:42 PM   #1939
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

throwback wrote: View Post
To me, that is the definition of this new Kirk. I wouldn't follow this Kirk for a single day, let alone five years.
This is a fair criticism of the character. I like Pine and I like this version of Kirk but they've simply moved him along much too quickly in these films.
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Old June 10 2013, 08:43 PM   #1940
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

throwback wrote: View Post
The question becomes, what has Star Trek to change for it to succeed?


Is Star Trek Into Darkness really not succeeding? Really?
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Old June 10 2013, 08:45 PM   #1941
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

throwback wrote: View Post
For me, the quality that changed the most was the character of James Kirk.
In both films nuKirk has been shown to be:

*Better than everyone else.
*A man of action (act first, ask later).
*Prone to mistake due to lapses in judgment caused by ego and hubris.

All three of those define ShatKirk.

The only difference is nuKirk's immaturity. He's younger and never had a father figure. He was also thrust from Hicksville townie to Starship commander rather rapidly.

The reason why this part of both films' themes is because it's an on-going character arc.

What's the problem?
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Old June 10 2013, 08:57 PM   #1942
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

Weekend actuals: $11,425,755 (-32%) for $199,866,194 to date. Very good fourth weekend hold.
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Old June 10 2013, 09:00 PM   #1943
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

That inherent insecurity of the franchise, from the biggest top executive down to the tiniest fan, is funny at times.

That's how you get mediocre films. Star Trek Into Darkness was a clear in your face attempt to cash in on the Dark Knight vibe, just as Star Trek Begins was an attempt to cash in on the Star Wars prequels and Batman Begins. Everyone of the involved told you that this was what they were aiming at. It didn't came to them organically, it wasn't an idea they genuinely liked, it was an idea that they thought was dictated by the market.

They forget that the original films they were "inspired by" didn't do that. The Dark Knight is a genuine film through and through, and you notice that in every aspect of its execution (with The Dark Knight Rises on the other hand, you already notice that a lot of that got lost and they did try to make a second TDK).

And that's also why they are disappointed, studios and fans alike, with the box office that is actually okay. So this film didn't became their Dark Knight or their Skyfall? Well, too bad. Don't expect your films to perform better than average just because you imitate the extremely successful ones.
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Old June 10 2013, 09:01 PM   #1944
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post

The only difference is nuKirk's immaturity. He's younger and never had a father figure. He was also thrust from Hicksville townie to Starship commander rather rapidly.

The reason why this part of both films' themes is because it's an on-going character arc.

What's the problem?
I don't think the arc itself is the problem, it's how rapid everything happens in Into Darkness. Kirk went from starship captain to cadet to first officer and back to starship captain in what seems like a twenty-four hour window.

I know that we don't want to waste time showing inconsequential events between two important events. But we can denote a passage of time without bogging the film down. A simple snarky line about Kirk spending time as the Delta-Vega outpost commander would've shown that some time had past and that he was actually punished for something.

But hindsight is 20/20.
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Old June 10 2013, 09:13 PM   #1945
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

I thought the now-you're-captain-now-you're-XO-whoops-now-you're-captain-again was an...unnecessary detour and distraction in this one.
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Old June 10 2013, 09:25 PM   #1946
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post

Robert_T_April wrote: View Post
The Undiscovered Country was pretty close to being perfect IMHO.
Really? With Kirk suddenly hating Klingons with an intensity we never saw in STs III, IV nor V? With Chekov seemingly not knowing that a hand phaser sets off ship alarms? With Uhura not knowing any Klingon sentences? With McCoy not knowing anything about Klingon anatomy? With Kirk and McCoy being imprisoned in their Starfleet uniforms, complete with tracking device?

Nah, not perfect to me.
Every episode, and especially every movie can be nitpicked to death, however, yours are extremely minor.
The Klingons killed Kirk's son in Star Trek III. What is so unbelievable about his feelings towards Klingons? These feelings haven't been explored as they didn't fit into IV or V, and honestly, I really don't take The Final Frontier seriously as it was just a poorly written, and poorly directed movie. Not to mention, the f/x were cheap.

As for the tracking device, a transponder could have been injected into Kirk but, it wouldn't have been as dramatic.

Your issues with Uhura and Chekov aren't even worth mentioning as it had zero impact on the story. The bit in Klingon space added a little humour which didn't hurt.

And as for McCoy saying he didn't even know his anatomy was not a big deal to me because, it was somewhat exaggerated under the circumstances, and he's a medical doctor...not a veterinarian.

When I said perfect, I didn't mean nitpick free. I meant it was epic, touching, the humour was not forced, the f/x were awesome, the acting was awesome, and it was the best directed Trek to date! Hats off to Nick Meyer!

The timing was perfect for this movie. It really was an EPIC sendoff for this crew. It couldn't have been done any better.
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Old June 10 2013, 09:33 PM   #1947
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

I always thought the patch was composed of a rare element that the Klingons simply didn't know to look for.

But then I love The Undiscovered Country.
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Old June 10 2013, 10:56 PM   #1948
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Hugh Mann wrote: View Post
The only thing I can say to that is that anyone who claims to have been a fan of TOS and says that J.J. "Michael Bay" Abrams' films "feel like TOS" are lying, and they either have not seen TOS or they have not seen Abrams' films (or they have not seen either).
I've been a Trek fan since 1966.
I've seen every TOS episode many, many times.
I've seen Abrams's Trek films multiple times.
STID in particular captures a good deal about TOS that previous TOS-based movies never did.
I'm not lying.

Therefore, your statement is flat-out 100% wrong. That's not an opinion. It's a fact.
^^^
Change 1966 to 1969 (I was 6 when I first caught the original Star Trek on NBC and loved it) -- and I echo the above to a Tee.
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Old June 10 2013, 11:09 PM   #1949
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

throwback wrote: View Post
Fast and Furious changed its direction, by focusing less on car racing.

The question becomes, what has Star Trek to change for it to succeed? I think some people are thinking the change was too much, that it lost something of its quality when it was adapted to international markets.
Humm... well I think there's a way to adapt it and make it a blockbuster franchise without losing the "core values" of Trek. Damned if I know how, mind you. It shouldn't be impossible. We just need someone with the right idea.
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Old June 10 2013, 11:13 PM   #1950
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
That's how you get mediocre films. Star Trek Into Darkness was a clear in your face attempt to cash in on the Dark Knight vibe
Dark Knight was made BEFORE Trek '09, Jarod.

just as Star Trek Begins was an attempt to cash in on the Star Wars prequels and Batman Begins.
The prequels started in '99, Jarod.

They forget that the original films they were "inspired by" didn't do that. The Dark Knight is a genuine film through and through
Well I find it entertaining and gripping but also pretentious, overrated, convoluted and full of plot holes.

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
I thought the now-you're-captain-now-you're-XO-whoops-now-you're-captain-again was an...unnecessary detour and distraction in this one.
True. There's enough material in that movie for a miniseries.
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