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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old June 10 2013, 05:03 PM   #31
Dukhat
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

surak-toc wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Correction, people were sick of ST: Enterprise.

An academy show, assuming that it was written and cast correctly (big assumption) would be great for the youth demographic.
That was my whole point. The only ones who would have produced a Trek academy series was UPN, and it would have had the same frat-boyish mentality ENT had, but worse, because it would actually take place at a college.
Not necessarily would this Starfleet academy series have a frat-boyish mentality, neither does it have to look like a soap opera kind of thing, to be a top class show I think having some of the writers of some of the great ST novels on board and a good strong cast, the series set after the dominion war, san Francisco's Starfleet academy destroyed and setting up a perfect setting for the new one on Luna colony, does not have to be a teen angst, of kind of thing
UPN would totally have not made the show anything like you've just described.
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Old June 10 2013, 05:35 PM   #32
LobsterAfternoon
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

I don't get the complaint that it'd just be them sitting in lectures. In theory, Harry Potter should've been the same thing, but clearly they managed to get them out and having adventures with ease.
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Old June 10 2013, 05:56 PM   #33
Pavonis
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

Harry Potter had adventures out of the classroom because he was the target of a vicious psychopath and his primary mentor did little to protect him. So unless the characters of an Academy-set series are the target of a villain, I don't see how the show would work.
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Old June 10 2013, 06:21 PM   #34
surak-toc
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

If anything since the series would be set in the aftermath of the dominion war I'd think there would be a faction or two out there ready to rear their heads
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Old June 10 2013, 06:29 PM   #35
Pavonis
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

Rear their heads and do what? Kill cadets? Chase them across the galaxy looking for a MacGuffin?
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Old June 10 2013, 06:32 PM   #36
Merry Christmas
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

Shazam! wrote: View Post
This week on Star Trek Academy, Spock loses his homework whilst Kirk wedgies Sulu.
Or Spock is a instructor at the academy who has a series of affairs with various female students for higher grade like he did with Uhura in Star Trek Eleven.

Can you say "sweeps week?"


surak-toc wrote: View Post
lets say it's set partly at the academy, partly on away assignments, we will see other starships, alien planets and such stuff, will still be action packed, its during the aftermath of the dominion war.
Great idea. Do half or two-thirds at the academy and it's surroundings, then have the rest of the season be during the yearly "midshipman's cruise."

... after the dominion war, san Francisco's Starfleet academy destroyed
Part of the appeal of the academy setting would be the chance to set portions of the stories in a future San Fransisco, the cadets would have civilian friends in the city, this would expand the series outside of the academy.

Pavonis wrote: View Post
The primary activity of cadets would be learning, as in listening to lectures, participating in seminars, and doing homework.
While we would likely on occasion hear about this, realistically the show would never center on this.

The show would be the interaction of cadets in a future society, Humans and Aliens, their friends, the instructor, the surrounding society and environment. We the viewers would see more of the future Earth and hear more about the Federation than ever before.

Also, given the ages of the cadets and separation for home, and the pressures of the academy, no doubt we would see some of the cadets experience "teen angst." Having all the cadets blissful about their current lives would be unrealistic.

We might also see some cadets as ongoing disruptions at the academy, Ensign Ro "LIKE" personalities.

I'll admit that some of their learning would be done in the holodeck ..
Hopefully not, holodeck stories are usually pretty boring.

... why follow the stories of the cadets and not the senior officers (whose lives would almost certainly be far more interesting)?
If you're aiming for a youth demographic (and those young at heart too) the lead characters would have to be the cadets. The training officers would be the support characters.


Last edited by Merry Christmas; June 11 2013 at 05:41 AM.
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Old June 10 2013, 06:47 PM   #37
Pavonis
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

Are the "youth demographic" really only attracted to shows about young people? I think Star Trek did just fine with the youth demographics without having to have exclusively young people. Was Picard a turn-off for young viewers? Was O'Brien the reason fewer people watched DS9? Is a little bit of gray hair scary?

Frankly, if the characters are going to be cadets in all but actual practice, why not just make them ensigns and post them to starships?

What's the advantage of having them be cadets? Seeing Future Earth? That's not enough to draw a regular audience, is it? And why should viewers who aren't in the "youth demographic" (the producers would want to attract those viewers, wouldn't they?) be subjected to stories driven by teen angst? Teen angst is artificial in drama and in real life - who wants to watch it?
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Old June 11 2013, 04:44 AM   #38
newtontomato539
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

mos6507 wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
the Abrams TOS reboot movies were totally the right way to go to re-energize Trek
Sometimes there's merit in building a franchise that hums along at a lower level, but keeps going, rather than to pander to current fashion trends that are bound to become stale as fashions change and the prime-demographic groups age-out and develop more mature tastes.

JJ Trek will be lucky to get one more film after this, beyond which I think it will have been played-out. JJ will have left the building and it just won't seem fresh and hip anymore.
BAD Robot TOS isn't building a franchise that hums along at a lower level. It's at a high level and people are noticing it.

Bad Robot TOS isn't pandering to current fashion trends.

Bad Robot TOS isn't pandering to TOS purists.

Try again.



Prime Trek is dead. Bad Robot Trek is alive and kicking. Long Live Trek.
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Old June 11 2013, 07:14 AM   #39
Merry Christmas
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

newtontomato539 wrote: View Post
Bad Robot TOS isn't ...
... providing over a hundred episodes of Star Trek over the course of four years, instead Bad Robot is gives us a single two hour movie during the same time period. A series would generate more content.

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Was O'Brien the reason fewer people watched DS9?
Okay, then what was the reason fewer people watched DS9?

Frankly, if the characters are going to be cadets in all but actual practice, why not just make them ensigns and post them to starships?
Much of DS9 wasn't about being "posted to a starship." Starship duty was instead a portion of the series. If you depict the cadets solely in the environment of a ship's mission, then that is where the stories will come from.

Combining campus life, with some starship time, with character development, with a stressful setting, with multiple diverse alien cultures, this is where the a Starfleet Academy show will be set.

Seeing Future Earth? That's not enough to draw a regular audience, is it?
All by itself no, but no one is suggesting that that would be the sole focus

... be subjected to stories driven by teen angst?
Again, not the sole focus. But I think that some of the primary characters - secondary characters would show sign of angst, given the academy environment.

Are the "youth demographic" really only attracted to shows about young people?
Exclusively? No. What is being proposed here is a show aimed a niche market, which is what many successful shows are today. And people who are pass their teens and twenties will watch a "youth" show if it is well made.

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Old June 11 2013, 10:18 AM   #40
Belz...
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

Why do we have two threads of this ?
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Old June 11 2013, 04:02 PM   #41
bountifulboxesjeg
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

A lot of great idea's in this thread, namely how LobsterAfternoon's depiction of how Harry Potter was about him going to school, but it wasn't at the same time.

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Harry Potter had adventures out of the classroom because he was the target of a vicious psychopath and his primary mentor did little to protect him. So unless the characters of an Academy-set series are the target of a villain, I don't see how the show would work.
There are vicious threats about, the reminiscences of the Dominion (especially the Jem'Hadar who don't have ketracel-white), the Borg (who would probably just fix that hub that Janeway broke), even the Hirogen, with their accent technology, find a way to make it to earth, and with the fleet spread out and undermanned from the Dominion war, the students could do a Star Trek 09's 'cadets answering a distress call'. A nice two-parter episode there.

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
...there's limited story material. You only have four years, than they'd have to decide do we continue following this cast as they head out on their first assignment or do they bring in a new cast and follow their four years at the Academy?
There is so much they can work with. a Bajoran student heads home for the weekend and a Cardassian renegade squad attacks, to a student or two volunteering to terraform a planet for the summer (one part of a multi-plot story). Cycling in (and washing out) students would be easy, but after the 5th year you could have a student intern on a ship and run into a graduated classmate, which who make the show stay essentially about Starfleet Acadamy.

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Was O'Brien the reason fewer people watched DS9?
Okay, then what was the reason fewer people watched DS9?
I liked O'brien. He's really the only family man in the series, at least the only one successful at it and IMO I think he's pulled more tricks out of his hat then Geordi, he just doesn't have his eyes. I think DS9's problem was a slow start and losing viewers before the Dominion war picked up.

Belz... wrote: View Post
Why do we have two threads of this ?
At the bottom of the first post in the other thread, I noted I meant to drop that in the general trek board, and that Modders could remove that one if cross threads are not alowed. At this point they should merge threads if that's doable, Sran makes some great pointers and ideas.
^http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=216214
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Old June 11 2013, 06:08 PM   #42
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
Was O'Brien the reason fewer people watched DS9?
Okay, then what was the reason fewer people watched DS9?
Maybe it had something to do with being a a space station that doesn't move versus a starship.

I mean it is kind of telling that the first big change they made was giving the DS9 crew a starship.
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Old June 11 2013, 06:15 PM   #43
Pavonis
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Combining campus life, with some starship time, with character development, with a stressful setting, with multiple diverse alien cultures, this is where the a Starfleet Academy show will be set.
Really, how much "diverse alien culture" can be depicted in San Francisco? I don't buy it. Are you suggesting there is a "Little Andoria" near the "Vulcan Compound" and around the corner from "Tellaritetown" that the various cadets can visit for a taste of home?

... be subjected to stories driven by teen angst?
Again, not the sole focus. But I think that some of the primary characters - secondary characters would show sign of angst, given the academy environment.
Sure, but why would anyone want to watch it?

Are the "youth demographic" really only attracted to shows about young people?
Exclusively? No. What is being proposed here is a show aimed a niche market, which is what many successful shows are today. And people who are pass their teens and twenties will watch a "youth" show if it is well made.
Sure they will. Color me skeptical.

Some of the ideas are good, but they're all basically saying that the "cadets" will be off doing things that trained officers usually do. So why have the characters be cadets? If you want a taste of the Academy in the show, just have the ensigns and junior lieutenants go back to the Academy for graduate-level courses occasionally.
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Old June 11 2013, 07:33 PM   #44
Gaith
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

Harry Potter didn't even bother abiding by its own world-building. If Voldy supporters were as few and rare as the first six books would have had us think, why wasn't there a wizarding civil war when he invaded the Ministry? And why didn't an international coalition of wizards swoop in to help take him down? It'd be like a revived Hitler taking over Berlin today. Even if contemporary Germans simply let that happen (a pretty offensive notion), one would think the rest of the world would have something to say about it. But Rowling's insistence on keeping her Chosen One at the center of everything required tossing any kind of coherent world-building out the Astronomy Tower window. That's not what Trek is about.

There was a similar dynamic in Smallville, but at least there it made in-universe sense, in that Clark was far more unique by his town's standards than Harry and Co. ever were.

No, there'll never be an Academy series, ever. Too high budgets for too little action with too little conflict. There's always the YA paperback books, though...
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Old June 11 2013, 07:58 PM   #45
suarezguy
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Re: Starfleet Academy Series

An Academy series could be good in that at least it would be different, away from the starship setting. By the third or fourth year you could graduate some of the older characters and increasingly transition to the series being about low-ranking officers on ships.
However, I wouldn't want it in Abrams' universe, where (only seen ST09 so far) Starfleet appears pretty unprofessional and the late 24th century prime setting (if it still exists) could be too remote for the average viewer.

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
And besides, there's limited story material. You only have four years
Assuming Enterprise would run seven years hurt it.
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