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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old June 10 2013, 02:22 AM   #16
EliyahuQeoni
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Sran wrote: View Post

I've not yet had the privilege of reading Watching the Clock beyond peaking at excerpts via Google Books. It's on my list of books to read. By the way, are you involved in the upcoming series of novels that follow the events of the Typhon Pact series?

--Sran
It is an amazing book. I rate both the DTI books among the best modern Trek books (Heck, they rate highly for me among any Trek books).
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Old June 10 2013, 02:44 AM   #17
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
It is an amazing book. I rate both the DTI books among the best modern Trek books (Heck, they rate highly for me among any Trek books).
I enjoy stories depicting time travel. I love the theory underlying the science of temporal mechanics, so I'm sure I'll enjoy the novels once I have a chance to look at them more closely. None of the libraries in my area have Watching the Clock, but Forgotten History is available at a few branches. Maybe I should try to have Watching the Clock ordered.

--Sran
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Old June 10 2013, 02:57 AM   #18
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Sran wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
I'm not involved with The Fall, no. I'm busy exploring the beginnings of the Federation.
Awesome! That series sounds promising, as there's so much ground to cover.

It'll be interesting to see how the universe split is handled, as we know that both the Roddenberry Unverse and the Abrams universe consider the events of Archer an crew in "Enterprise" to occur in both universes.
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Old June 10 2013, 07:01 AM   #19
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Arpy wrote: View Post
The experience on the Enterprise seemed to get out of hand pretty quickly (17 days) whereas on the Bozeman (lost 80 yrs earlier) they didn't seem bothered at all. I wonder if they did experienced anything at all, and if they did, what the writers came up with.

Also, I wonder if they on the Bozeman only began to experience something like the Enterprise did once the Enterprise entered the expanse and the two ships began colliding with each other. Maybe if they hadn't, if it were just the Enterprise lost in the expanse, IT wouldn't have felt anything at all for years on end either until some other ship caused ITS temporal loop to be interrupted.
I've always kind of assumed from the episode that there were two distinct temporal effects going on here. The first one is your standard (for Trek anyway) "Yesterday's Enterprise"-style temporal anomaly. This is what brought the Bozeman forward from 2278. According to chakoteya.net, the Enterprise crew constantly referred to it as a "highly localized distortion of the space-time continuum". Bozeman flew into the distortion in 2278 and emerged in 2368 almost instantaneously, much like Enterprise-C came forward from 2344 to 2366.

The temporal loop effect was specific to the Enterprise. The characters speculated in the episode itself that the loop was caused by their ship exploding so close to the temporal anomaly.

So from the Bozeman's POV, they wouldn't experience a loop, or deja vu, or anything like that. If anything, they'd maybe relive the amount of time over from the time they emerged from the anomaly to the time the Enterprise exploded, but that's only a minute or two at most. And they should have only experienced this for the same amount of time the Enterprise crew did--17 days.

Anyway, that's my personal take on it, from back when I first saw the episode. I'm not sure it agrees with any of the novels' interpretations, but based on what someone wrote above, I guess it'd be closer to Ship of the Line, but it's been so long since I read that that I don't remember the details.

I was actually quite surprised when I read online that people thought that Bozeman had been in a temporal loop for 80 years.

The loop itself was a weird phenomenon. The Enterprise didn't seem to actually go back in time, because at the end of the episode, they found out how long they'd been in the loop by synchronizing their clocks to a "Federation time beacon". If they were really resetting back to where they were at the start of the loop, their clocks should have still matched once they broke it. I guess maybe the space-time continuum itself was fractured, and the local area of space reset while the rest of the universe carried on?
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Old June 10 2013, 07:26 AM   #20
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

IMO, forget Ship Of The Line. Like Christopher stated, it was clearly seen in the episode itself there was a woman in the bridge-crew, something Diane Carey completely ignored while she went for an all male crew. That, together with bad writing, silly plot and Picard doing nothing but worshipping Kirk, make this a rather silly novel.
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Old June 10 2013, 04:53 PM   #21
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Mage wrote: View Post
IMO, forget Ship Of The Line. Like Christopher stated, it was clearly seen in the episode itself there was a woman in the bridge-crew, something Diane Carey completely ignored while she went for an all male crew. That, together with bad writing, silly plot and Picard doing nothing but worshipping Kirk, make this a rather silly novel.
I would like nothing better than to forget it. I still have visions of George Hill ensnaring Bozeman bridge officers with his tentacles.

--Sran
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Old June 10 2013, 04:59 PM   #22
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Mage wrote: View Post
IMO, forget Ship Of The Line. Like Christopher stated, it was clearly seen in the episode itself there was a woman in the bridge-crew, something Diane Carey completely ignored while she went for an all male crew.
Two women, actually. A straight-haired brunette in a command lieutenant's uniform, supposedly the first officer per the script (whom I named Parvana Whitcomb), and a curly-haired redhead in what appears to be an engineering uniform (whom I named Claudia Alisov).
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Old June 10 2013, 05:08 PM   #23
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Sran wrote: View Post
I would like nothing better than to forget it. I still have visions of George Hill ensnaring Bozeman bridge officers with his tentacles.
Hmm. The George Hill Blob monster was the only good part of that novel as far as I'm concerned.
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Old June 10 2013, 05:15 PM   #24
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Christopher wrote: View Post
Two women, actually. A straight-haired brunette in a command lieutenant's uniform, supposedly the first officer per the script (whom I named Parvana Whitcomb), and a curly-haired redhead in what appears to be an engineering uniform (whom I named Claudia Alisov).
Interesting names. Are they based on people you know, or did you create them from scratch?

Kevman7987 wrote: View Post
Hmm. The George Hill Blob monster was the only good part of that novel as far as I'm concerned.
I rather enjoyed the scenes featuring Kirk and Spock just before the Bozeman disappeared, especially Bateson's surprise when he realized Kirk was commanding the Enterprise.

--Sran
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Old June 10 2013, 05:20 PM   #25
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Although it really could have done without Picard watching "Balance of Terror" on the holodeck, I thought Ship of the Line was enjoyable. It was nice to see it referenced in Cold Equations: Silent Weapons
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Old June 10 2013, 05:27 PM   #26
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Sran wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Two women, actually. A straight-haired brunette in a command lieutenant's uniform, supposedly the first officer per the script (whom I named Parvana Whitcomb), and a curly-haired redhead in what appears to be an engineering uniform (whom I named Claudia Alisov).
Interesting names. Are they based on people you know, or did you create them from scratch?
I was going for time-travel in-jokes. Whitcomb was a character from Poul Anderson's first Time Patrol story. I think I just picked Parvana because the actress looked like she could be nonwhite and I wanted to add a bit of diversity. Claudia is in reference to Claudia Wells from Back to the Future, and Alisov is an indirect reference to The Time Tunnel's Lee Meriwether (who also played Catwoman, aka "Miss Kitka" Alisoff, in the 1966 Batman movie). Again, I was looking for a bit more diversity, which is why I didn't call her McGregor (Meriwether's Time Tunnel character name).
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Old June 10 2013, 05:48 PM   #27
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Although it really could have done without Picard watching "Balance of Terror" on the holodeck, I thought Ship of the Line was enjoyable. It was nice to see it referenced in Cold Equations: Silent Weapons
I actually enjoyed the reenactment, as it provided fascinating insight into the differences between ship masters of Kirk's time and those of Picard's. The alpha quadrant of The Original Series was a lot like the Old West. Ships were often left to their own devices when attempting to avert a crisis. Kirk was accountable to Starfleet brass, but as far as he was concerned, whether the Federation went to war against Romulus was his decision.

Christopher wrote: View Post
I was going for time-travel in-jokes. Whitcomb was a character from Poul Anderson's first Time Patrol story. I think I just picked Parvana because the actress looked like she could be nonwhite and I wanted to add a bit of diversity. Claudia is in reference to Claudia Wells from Back to the Future, and Alisov is an indirect reference to The Time Tunnel's Lee Meriwether (who also played Catwoman, aka "Miss Kitka" Alisoff, in the 1966 Batman movie). Again, I was looking for a bit more diversity, which is why I didn't call her McGregor (Meriwether's Time Tunnel character name).
Thanks for the explanation, Christopher! I love Back to the Future, so any mention of those films makes me smile. They're probably part of the reason why I enjoy time travel stories so much.

--Sran
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Old June 11 2013, 02:58 AM   #28
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Thanks to this discussion - I've reserved Watching the Clock from my library, looking forward to reading it
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Old June 12 2013, 12:12 AM   #29
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

You're in for a treat. It's an awesome book.
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Old June 12 2013, 03:40 AM   #30
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Re: The U.S.S. Bozeman's experience?

Avro Arrow wrote: View Post
Arpy wrote: View Post
The experience on the Enterprise seemed to get out of hand pretty quickly (17 days) whereas on the Bozeman (lost 80 yrs earlier) they didn't seem bothered at all. I wonder if they did experienced anything at all, and if they did, what the writers came up with.

Also, I wonder if they on the Bozeman only began to experience something like the Enterprise did once the Enterprise entered the expanse and the two ships began colliding with each other. Maybe if they hadn't, if it were just the Enterprise lost in the expanse, IT wouldn't have felt anything at all for years on end either until some other ship caused ITS temporal loop to be interrupted.
I've always kind of assumed from the episode that there were two distinct temporal effects going on here. The first one is your standard (for Trek anyway) "Yesterday's Enterprise"-style temporal anomaly. This is what brought the Bozeman forward from 2278. According to chakoteya.net, the Enterprise crew constantly referred to it as a "highly localized distortion of the space-time continuum". Bozeman flew into the distortion in 2278 and emerged in 2368 almost instantaneously, much like Enterprise-C came forward from 2344 to 2366.

The temporal loop effect was specific to the Enterprise. The characters speculated in the episode itself that the loop was caused by their ship exploding so close to the temporal anomaly.

So from the Bozeman's POV, they wouldn't experience a loop, or deja vu, or anything like that. If anything, they'd maybe relive the amount of time over from the time they emerged from the anomaly to the time the Enterprise exploded, but that's only a minute or two at most. And they should have only experienced this for the same amount of time the Enterprise crew did--17 days.

Anyway, that's my personal take on it, from back when I first saw the episode. I'm not sure it agrees with any of the novels' interpretations, but based on what someone wrote above, I guess it'd be closer to Ship of the Line, but it's been so long since I read that that I don't remember the details.
I always shared this interpretation. How could the Bozeman be looping through its impact with the Enterprise decades before the Enterprise shows up?

Poor Bozeman, two separate temporal anomalies right at once! Stay out of the Typhon Expanse, I guess.
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