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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old June 10 2013, 02:25 AM   #16
Sran
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Still, it was an odd choice on the filmmakers' part to have the characters remember a meeting that we never saw in the episode. It can be easily enough rationalized, obviously, but it's still a retcon rather than building on what "Space Seed" actually established, and that's a curious creative decision. Why did they decide to make Chekov the one who recognized Khan? Why not put, say, Uhura or Scotty on the Reliant instead?
This is a great point, Christopher. I think the inclusion of Scotty aboard Reliant would have made perfect sense given his engineering background. It's entirely plausible that his expertise would have been needed to determine the best way to deploy the Genesis device without endangering the ship once a test site was chosen, so it goes without saying that he should have been included in the site selection process. I suppose the writers wanted to show Chekov in a different role to emphasize the passage of time, but as a navigator and security officer, his presence on a scientific mission would otherwise have been difficult to justify, even knowing the sensitive nature of the Genesis experiment.

Scotty's absence from Enterprise during the initial confrontation with Khan would have changed the nature of those events, but he still could have been present for the battle in the Mutara Nebula near the film's end.

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Old June 10 2013, 10:21 AM   #17
Therin of Andor
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
It's also possible that Khan met Chekov shortly after the events of "Space Seed," but before Khan's people were dumped on Ceti Alpha V. In To Reign in Hell, I made a point of establishing that Chekov was among the crew members who escorted Khan and his people to the planet and provided them with supplies, said goodbye to Marla, etc.

The simplest explanation has always been that Chekov was already a member of the crew during Khan's takeover, just not assigned to the bridge yet.
IIRC, Vonda McIntyre suggested a friendship between McGivers and Chekov in her novelization.

ST II also features Mr Kyle on the same ship as Chekov - and Marla and Kyle have an encounter in "Space Seed", in which she bails him up at phaser point.

Walter Koenig says that, on ST II, he realised immediately that Chekov hadn't met Khan onscreen in TOS, but worried that if he mentioned something the writers might give away his coveted lines to George Takei (not thinking that Sulu hadn't been onscreen with Khan either.) Maybe John Winston should have done some lobbying.
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Old June 10 2013, 10:33 AM   #18
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

I'd go with the opinion that Khan and Chekov meet off screen. It's easy enough to rationalise that with a crew of 430 that Khan meet some of those off screen.
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Old June 10 2013, 10:42 AM   #19
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

MacLeod wrote: View Post
I'd go with the opinion that Khan and Chekov meet off screen. It's easy enough to rationalise that with a crew of 430 that Khan meet some of those off screen.
Walter Koenig once joked that Khan was going to the bathroom and Chekov was blocking it. Khan got upset yelling "I will never forget your face!"
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Old June 10 2013, 12:42 PM   #20
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
IIRC, Vonda McIntyre suggested a friendship between McGivers and Chekov in her novelization.
Ahhh! I thought I had a faint memory of some sort of Chekov backstory to explain Khan recognizing him.

Walter Koenig says that, on ST II, he realised immediately that Chekov hadn't met Khan onscreen in TOS, but worried that if he mentioned something the writers might give away his coveted lines to George Takei (not thinking that Sulu hadn't been onscreen with Khan either.) Maybe John Winston should have done some lobbying.
He had a case, and since the production cared enough to bring back a "C" player from TOS under the idea that some would recognize him, they handed Winston a bargaining chip!
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Old June 10 2013, 04:03 PM   #21
Greg Cox
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
It's also possible that Khan met Chekov shortly after the events of "Space Seed," but before Khan's people were dumped on Ceti Alpha V. In To Reign in Hell, I made a point of establishing that Chekov was among the crew members who escorted Khan and his people to the planet and provided them with supplies, said goodbye to Marla, etc.

The simplest explanation has always been that Chekov was already a member of the crew during Khan's takeover, just not assigned to the bridge yet.
IIRC, Vonda McIntyre suggested a friendship between McGivers and Chekov in her novelization.

Yep, and I borrowed that for To Reign in Hell, where Chekov is the last person to say goodbye to Marla, whom he'd always had a bit of a crush on . . . .
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Old June 10 2013, 09:47 PM   #22
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

...There's quite a bit of tragicomic potential in a crush that goes unreciprocated because the object of desire requires any beau-hopeful to be nothing short of a superman! Subjecting poor young Chekov to this cruelty is just about the perfect choice.

There's also good drama in placing the still rather junior Chekov aboard the Reliant: the TOS character there needs to be a meek victim to Khan, rather than a plausible challenger - and also something of an unquestioning lackey so that the very concept of Genesis does not launch him or her into ethical self-doubt and action immediately. Yes, Scotty might have had an ethical blind spot with a miracle of engineering, but Chekov is the likelier by-the-book, his-not-to-ask-why officer to do the Marcuses' bidding. And making Uhura a victim and then a traitor might have been unpalatable for a variety of reasons.

Swapping Chekov and Sulu would again have been an option, though. But, as pointed out, not an improvement in terms of "plot holes".

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Old June 11 2013, 10:01 PM   #23
YARN
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

Just a testament to how awesome Khan's memory is; He remembered someone who wasn't even there! Or rather, he remembered a minor person shuffling around in the background whom we didn't even see in the episode.
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Old June 12 2013, 08:09 PM   #24
Jonas Grumby
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

I heard there was a scene cut from "Space Seed" that explained how Khan remembers Chekov so well:

Chekov (entering transporter room where Khan and Marla McGivers are waiting): "Keptin Kirk asked me to take care of beaming you down to Alpha Ceti 5."
Khan: "I should be insulted that your captain sends a mere menial to see us off!"
Chekov (clearly insulted): "Nevertheless, I am ready to transport, if you vill just step onto the platform."
Khan: "And what about our supplies?"
Chekov: "I vill beam them down immediately afterward."
Khan: "Make certain you do not forget the coffee and cigarettes!"
Chekov (sotto voce to himself while smiling): "Yeah, right, asshole."

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Old June 21 2013, 08:15 AM   #25
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

Slightly off-topic. I find it interesting to see how many posters don't bother to read the thread and/or have a slightly inflated sense of self-importance regarding their own contributions. The "bathroom explanation" has now been refered to four times in this thread. Each new reference implying that it is a lesser known theory that hasn't been heard of before.

I'm sure there's a thesis here.
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Old June 21 2013, 11:02 AM   #26
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

Timo wrote: View Post
If Khan and his band of multiethnic adult followers were stranded 15 years ago, how come all his followers are now white and in their 20s?
Because they are genetically perfect fifteen-year-olds, all born from the dominant marriage(s) on the colony?
Why the assumption that all of Khan's frozen "followers" were adults? In Space Seed, we saw a hand full of adult males, and Scotty reported that thirty of the followers were women.

And not all the followers on the Reliant were in their twenties, there was another man approximately Khan's age also on the bridge.

Timo, have you considered that the some of the people in the suspended animation chambers could have been children, most being pre-adolescent? This would account for the twenty-something characters we saw on the bridge.

SCOTT: ...and they're mixed types. Western, mid-European, Latin, Oriental. [later] Twelve units have malfunctioned, leaving seventy two still operating. Thirty of those are women.


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Old June 21 2013, 03:09 PM   #27
Christopher
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Re: Sulu and Chekov, not in Space Seed

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Why the assumption that all of Khan's frozen "followers" were adults? In Space Seed, we saw a hand full of adult males, and Scotty reported that thirty of the followers were women.
In the cryotubes aboard the Botany Bay, we clearly see three men and two women, all adults, and glimpse four others who seem to be of approximately adult size, putting them in their late teens at least. Later, when Khan revives his people, we see four adult men and three adult women (though the blonde in the back looks kind of teenagerish). We also see four men, probably the same four, with him in engineering.

Spock said that after the war, "there were some eighty or ninety of these young supermen unaccounted for when they were finally defeated." I suppose he could've been counting children, but they would've had to be preadolescent when they fled. Not out of the question, I guess. But it's annoying that the inconsistency exists in the first place.
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