RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,562
Posts: 5,402,075
Members: 24,864
Currently online: 630
Newest member: paddy00grenham

TrekToday headlines

October-November 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Cho Selfie TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

TPTB To Shatner: Shhh!
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Mystery Mini Vinyl Figure Display Box
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

The Red Shirt Diaries Episode Five
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

Shatner In Trek 3? Well Maybe
By: T'Bonz on Sep 28

Retro Review: Shadows and Symbols
By: Michelle on Sep 27

Meyer: Revitalizing Star Trek
By: T'Bonz on Sep 26

Trek Costumes To Be Auctioned
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25

Hulu Snaps up Abrams-Produced Drama
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 9 2013, 03:52 AM   #16
Ancient Mariner
Rear Admiral
 
Ancient Mariner's Avatar
 
Location: Sailing for adventure on the Big Blue Wet Thing™
View Ancient Mariner's Twitter Profile
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

RandyS wrote: View Post
I didn't dislike the episode, I just didn't understand it. And I'm not talking about the social commentary. That was pretty obvious. What eluded me was why did the Prophets give Sisko a vision about 1953 New York when he started the episode depressed about the death of a friend? That particular plot point was brought up, but then went nowhere. The Prophets' motives seems incoherent in this one.
Actually, the motive is perfectly clear. As I wrote when I first watched the episode a few years ago:
The episode is structured around the crisis of confidence and strength Sisko begins to feel as the casualties and rigors of war with the Dominion continue to mount. He receives bad news about an old acquaintance and it proves to very nearly be the final straw. As he tells his father, who is visiting the station, “I don’t know how much more of this I can take.” Sisko, who carries the titles of Captain and Emissary, is beginning to buckle under the pressures of expectations. And he wonders whether or not to simply step down from his post. His father counsels him, saying, “You’ve got some thinking to do.”

The episode, then, is a journey for Sisko, showing him how important it is to “fight the good fight.”

...

More important than the fiery, impassioned final plea of Benny (“I am a human being!) are the rationalizations of the various characters, demonstrating how prejudice can be created, continued and fought by excuses, arguments and actions. There are very few actual “villains” in the episode. But the moral standing of each character is on clear display. And that, really, is what makes the exploration into Benny’s life so compelling and powerful. More than simply saying, “Benny good – Douglas bad,” the episode shows us characters who struggle with or hide from important social issues, issues which have a very real affect on the lives of people.

All of this is designed to show our hero, Ben Sisko, that his fight against the Dominion is worth fighting. That stepping down would be tantamount to accepting Dominion rule, to enabling the oppressors. It’s another layer of the story that works very, very well.
__________________
Ancient Mariner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 04:00 AM   #17
Elim Garakov
Lieutenant Junior Grade
 
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
RandyS wrote: View Post
I didn't dislike the episode, I just didn't understand it. And I'm not talking about the social commentary. That was pretty obvious. What eluded me was why did the Prophets give Sisko a vision about 1953 New York when he started the episode depressed about the death of a friend? That particular plot point was brought up, but then went nowhere. The Prophets' motives seems incoherent in this one.
Actually, the motive is perfectly clear. As I wrote when I first watched the episode a few years ago:
The episode is structured around the crisis of confidence and strength Sisko begins to feel as the casualties and rigors of war with the Dominion continue to mount. He receives bad news about an old acquaintance and it proves to very nearly be the final straw. As he tells his father, who is visiting the station, “I don’t know how much more of this I can take.” Sisko, who carries the titles of Captain and Emissary, is beginning to buckle under the pressures of expectations. And he wonders whether or not to simply step down from his post. His father counsels him, saying, “You’ve got some thinking to do.”

The episode, then, is a journey for Sisko, showing him how important it is to “fight the good fight.”

...

More important than the fiery, impassioned final plea of Benny (“I am a human being!) are the rationalizations of the various characters, demonstrating how prejudice can be created, continued and fought by excuses, arguments and actions. There are very few actual “villains” in the episode. But the moral standing of each character is on clear display. And that, really, is what makes the exploration into Benny’s life so compelling and powerful. More than simply saying, “Benny good – Douglas bad,” the episode shows us characters who struggle with or hide from important social issues, issues which have a very real affect on the lives of people.

All of this is designed to show our hero, Ben Sisko, that his fight against the Dominion is worth fighting. That stepping down would be tantamount to accepting Dominion rule, to enabling the oppressors. It’s another layer of the story that works very, very well.
So basically a bajoran peptalk?
Elim Garakov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 04:01 AM   #18
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

I like the episode but I think it's overrated. The whole affair was a little forced.

I thought it turned out to be the Pah-Wraiths behind his vision. Sarah Sisko said "The wraiths even sent you a false vision and you did not waver", presumably referring to his second 'Benny' vision where he's in a mental institution. (Or were they only behind the second one?)
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 05:52 AM   #19
I Am Groot
I Am Groot
 
I Am Groot's Avatar
 
Location: I Am Groot
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

R. Star wrote: View Post
But yeah, as this thread demonstrates there are those who seem to think anyone who doesn't like it as much as they do are missing out on some great truth. Though likes and dislikes are subjective things to each individual person.
I don't care if the OP likes or dislikes the episode and wouldn't have bothered to respond if he had only said it was boring or had overacting or something like that.

Nor do I think there were any especially profound or groundbreaking new insights into racial injustice in the story. There was nothing said about racism in the episode that hadn't been said before in other TV series, movies, books, etc. (which is not a knock on the story, mind you).

However, I object to the rationale that it's not true science fiction because of the 50s terrestrial setting of part of the episode. I object to the notion that Star Trek shouldn't do a "drama about racism" and think it misses the point since that's been a staple of Trek storytelling (and science fiction in general) from the start.
__________________
We are Groot and Locutus of Bored.
I Am Groot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 07:06 AM   #20
chrinFinity
Commander
 
chrinFinity's Avatar
 
Location: Scmocation
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

RandyS wrote: View Post
What eluded me was why did the Prophets give Sisko a vision about 1953 New York when he started the episode depressed about the death of a friend? That particular plot point was brought up, but then went nowhere. The Prophets' motives seems incoherent in this one.
Well, the path that that the Prophets laid out for us isn't always clear.
__________________
i hate everything
chrinFinity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 07:07 AM   #21
teacake
Admiral
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

I thought it was a DS9 highpoint and used very well as a part of Sisko's overall arc.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 09:20 AM   #22
YellowSubmarine
Rear Admiral
 
YellowSubmarine's Avatar
 
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Crazyewok wrote: View Post
If they wanted to do a commentry on racism then why not set it in the normal trek verse or do a real time travel plot.

I just dont dig the idea of a vision premise.
A real time travel plot to explore racism would have been awesome. But a vision was also awesome. Why not do both?

I did not like the direction DS9 sometimes took, but if there is one thing that really made it all worth, it was this episode.
__________________
R.I.P. Cadet James T. Kirk (-1651)
YellowSubmarine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 01:35 PM   #23
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
I object to the notion that Star Trek shouldn't do a "drama about racism"
No Im fine with a story about racism and other deep matters.


I just did not like the setting.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 01:41 PM   #24
teacake
Admiral
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

The setting was hilarious! Pulp sci fi magazine, it was perfect.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 01:55 PM   #25
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
... it was the only one written by the guy who created the whole thing.
Harold Livingston created "the whole thing?" He wrote Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
I like the episode but I think it's overrated. The whole affair was a little forced.
The episode was neither the best nor the worst. It was however heavy handed and preachy.

__________________
.
Those who beat their swords into plowshares shall farm for those who retained their swords
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 02:38 PM   #26
TheSubCommander
Captain
 
TheSubCommander's Avatar
 
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Far Beyond the Stars was a decent episode, well acted, and well written, but not one of my favorites. A more novel idea than your typical filler episode, and nice to see a lot of the actors out of makeup, but personally, I can take it or leave it. I prefer DS9 episodes that advance a story arc, or the Dominion War, really.
TheSubCommander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 07:40 PM   #27
stj
Rear Admiral
 
stj's Avatar
 
Location: the real world
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

In many respects it is a superb episode. But every second spent with the Prophets drags it down, because inflicting this doesn't make sense. The suggestion that Star Trek is Benny Russell's fantasy doesn't need any Prophets. Being aware that DS9 is fiction does rather rob that of much impact.

I've seen people in extreme emotional states and Brooks isn't overacting. His character is vulnerable, not cool, and that may not be pleasant viewing. Not the same thing at all.
__________________
The people of this country need regime change here, not abroad.
stj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 10:59 PM   #28
Allyn Gibson
Vice Admiral
 
Allyn Gibson's Avatar
 
Location: South Pennsyltucky
View Allyn Gibson's Twitter Profile Send a message via AIM to Allyn Gibson Send a message via Yahoo to Allyn Gibson
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

I love the episode, but I feel it needed a phildickian twist at the end where Sisko finds out that Benny Russell was real and really wrote stories of Deep Space Nine during sci-fi's Golden Age.

However, I understand why that wasn't done (assuming it was considered), because then it opens up a whole can of worms in continuity about what the Star Trek universe is -- a real place or a place of dreams.
__________________
"When David Marcus cited the great thinkers of history -- "Newton, Einstein, Surak" -- Newt Gingrich did not make his list." -- 24 January 2012

allyngibson.net
Allyn Gibson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 9 2013, 11:13 PM   #29
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
I love the episode, but I feel it needed a phildickian twist at the end where Sisko finds out that Benny Russell was real and really wrote stories of Deep Space Nine during sci-fi's Golden Age.

However, I understand why that wasn't done (assuming it was considered), because then it opens up a whole can of worms in continuity about what the Star Trek universe is -- a real place or a place of dreams.
I was hoping that at some point Q/John de Lancie would show up, in a very short cameo. That would have meant that Sisko DOES write the stories about Deep Space Nine, but for real.


Crazyewok wrote: View Post
Everyone seems to rave over it.

But

I found the whole thing well boring.......


I watch startrek for the science fictions. The whole them of future and space ect

I don't watch startrek to sit and watch a 1950's drama about racism.

Thge only good thing about the whole thing was the acting.

By the way I find most holodeck episodes boring as hell too.
Is it really too much to endure 1 episode out of 170 that deals with 1950s racism?
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 10 2013, 04:08 AM   #30
JirinPanthosa
Commodore
 
Re: Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Maybe if Cirroc Lofton could do the accent more convincingly...

He sounded like a racist radio show from the 1920s doing an African American character.

'Heavy handed' is the right word. A story about 1950s racism is a good idea, but hammering it into the audience's heads is not.
JirinPanthosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:44 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.