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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old June 7 2013, 08:57 AM   #31
JJTrek4ever!
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

ST-TWOK: McCoy forgetting to scan Chekhov and Terrell with a tricorder after they told him they had both been infected by Khan with a mind controlling bug!
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Old June 7 2013, 11:03 AM   #32
The Festivus Awakens
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Shinzon was created twenty years before Nemesis to be a clone of Picard. Why? Why would the Romulans of twenty years before have known where Picard was going to end up in the future? He would have just been captain of the Stargazer at the time, just another average officer commanding an average ship.
The Romulans have two pieces of knowledge about future events.

One would be from interrogations and "mind sifting" of the survivors of the Enterprise-C (in particular Tasha Yar) in 2344, who could tell them about Picard, the Enterprise crew, the Enterprise-D, and the future strategic situation in the quadrant... with a twist: In this alternate universe, the Federation is much more militaristic due to being in a constant state of war and is on the verge of being conquered by the Klingons.

The Romulans might have based their whole strategy around this glimpse of what they didn't know was an alternate future. They take an even more aggressive stance toward the Klingons, they return to the galactic stage, they build massive ships twice the size of the Enterprise-D for intimidation purposes, and they begin formulating a plan to replace high level captains (and possibly others) like Picard with clones.

The other glimpse of the future would be from Romulan captain Telek R'Mor in 2351 who made contact with the USS Voyager in the future through a micro-wormhole and could give them technical observations, scans of the ship, the crew's personal messages to their families and official reports to Starfleet, and vague details about the Federation's future.
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Old June 7 2013, 11:25 AM   #33
Gov Kodos
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Belz... wrote: View Post

Also, Excelsior spluttering to a halt totally ignoring the laws of physics.
I... never noticed that.
Excelsior, I put down to Scotty programming the engines to put the ship into a parking orbit with the station before they conk out. The rest was sound effects programmed by the old miracle worker.
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Old June 7 2013, 11:33 AM   #34
marksound
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post

Also, Excelsior spluttering to a halt totally ignoring the laws of physics.
I... never noticed that.
Excelsior, I put down to Scotty programming the engines to put the ship into a parking orbit with the station before they conk out. The rest was sound effects programmed by the old miracle worker.
This. You beat me to it.
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Old June 7 2013, 11:48 AM   #35
MacLeod
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Alignment X wrote: View Post
Watched TSFS earlier with my girlfriend and she spotted a plot hole, of sorts - I told her near the end of the film that Spock's homeworld was one of the main Federation planets, and she asked how the Enterprise crew got to land on Vulcan without being arrested by the Feds for terrorism offences, let alone walk about freely to watch a religious ceremony...
What terroist offense did they commit?

They were charged with

Theft of Federation Property (USS Enterprise)
Destruction of Federation Property (USS Enterprise)
Sabotage of Federation property (USS Excelsior
Disobeying Starfleet Orders
Assult on Federation Officers (at least 3 counts)

If they had commited a terrorist offense why weren't they charged with one.
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Old June 7 2013, 03:31 PM   #36
Galactic Alignment
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Alignment X wrote: View Post
Watched TSFS earlier with my girlfriend and she spotted a plot hole, of sorts - I told her near the end of the film that Spock's homeworld was one of the main Federation planets, and she asked how the Enterprise crew got to land on Vulcan without being arrested by the Feds for terrorism offences, let alone walk about freely to watch a religious ceremony...
What terroist offense did they commit?

They were charged with

Theft of Federation Property (USS Enterprise)
Destruction of Federation Property (USS Enterprise)
Sabotage of Federation property (USS Excelsior
Disobeying Starfleet Orders
Assult on Federation Officers (at least 3 counts)

If they had commited a terrorist offense why weren't they charged with one.
Chill, that's just the off-hand comment my girlfriend made when watching the film with me (she literally hadn't seen anything Trek before apart from TWOK and the Abramsverse films), with a hint of sarcasm, I mean in the real world it seems like nearly everything criminal is a terrorism offence these days. We haven't gotten to watching, or rewatching in my case, TVH yet.
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Old June 8 2013, 09:07 AM   #37
suarezguy
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Just rewatched The Wrath of Khan and while still great, it's awfully convenient that Khan didn't go to the transporter room yet Kirk did (especially with it having the last coordinates noted); also kind of weird that Khan didn't understand the "code" when Spock pretty much announced its meaning.
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Old June 8 2013, 03:09 PM   #38
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
TMP has a HUGE plot hole. A near-god-like living machine, which can digitize entire worlds and star systems and created a near-perfect android duplicate of Illia, never thought to wipe the muck off it's name plate?
That is not a plot hole, as the nameplate muck does not challenge story credibility. Yours is just a complaint.

Wrath of Khan's entire "two dimensional thinking" thing made zero sense, especially if Khan is the genius he's repeatedly said to be.
Being a genius does not make one a master of space battle strategy. Kirk had decades of experience kicking butt in all manner of methods. That allowed to him to see options where Khan only saw wound+hunt=death.


There are also problems with Ceti Alpha VI somehow blowing up, the Reliant somehow not noticing such a massive change in the solar system (did nobody count the planets?).
When was the last time Starfleet was in the area--or paid attention to every natural event? From "Space Seed," we get the impression the system is remote, hence the reason Kirk used it as the location to deposit Khan and his followers.

And why didn't Khan just beam Kirk up for torture and execution
Remember, Kirk offered to beam himself aboard--along with info on Genesis. Once Kirk used that breathing room as a means of attack, with the Enterprise leaving the area, Khan was more interested in mass destruction, with Kirk at the top of the list. Khan's vanity prodded him into wanting to out-captain THE captain in battle, thus his fate was sealed.

the entirely magical Genesis device?
Magical? We have no idea how a terraforming technology will operate in the late 23rd century, so the Genesis device falls under the description of projection, if anything.


Search For Spock is pure Vulcan hocus pocus, with not an ounce of realism or science fiction.
According to..? No one ever said ST was mysticism or religion free, and since Vulcan is an alien culture, you have no position on which to claim there's anything out of the norm for the ST concept.

Not a plot hole in the least.

Spock's ageing just happening to sync up with them arriving and leaving... uh huh
All organic material--the planet, and anything "born" on it was aging rapidly--like the planet.

Again, not a plot hole.

Also, Excelsior spluttering to a halt totally ignoring the laws of physics.
You're kidding--right? This is Star Trek, not NOVA. This is the same ST where never-gonna-happen transporters, warp drive, space stations the size of a small town exist. It is sci-fi, not a physics instruction manual.

Again, no plot hole.

Bored now. But there are more. Lots more. And people like to pretend JJ Abrams' Treks invented plot holes. LOL!

(and I love the old movies too!)
You say you love the old movies, but you capped off your argument with a protective post about the assbrained nuTrek films, which are to classic ST what the Star Wars prequels were to the original trilogy: a CG final exam with no heart, or much sense.
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Old June 8 2013, 03:49 PM   #39
JarodRussell
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
Shinzon was created twenty years before Nemesis to be a clone of Picard. Why? Why would the Romulans of twenty years before have known where Picard was going to end up in the future? He would have just been captain of the Stargazer at the time, just another average officer commanding an average ship.
The Romulans have two pieces of knowledge about future events.

One would be from interrogations and "mind sifting" of the survivors of the Enterprise-C (in particular Tasha Yar) in 2344, who could tell them about Picard, the Enterprise crew, the Enterprise-D, and the future strategic situation in the quadrant... with a twist: In this alternate universe, the Federation is much more militaristic due to being in a constant state of war and is on the verge of being conquered by the Klingons.

The Romulans might have based their whole strategy around this glimpse of what they didn't know was an alternate future. They take an even more aggressive stance toward the Klingons, they return to the galactic stage, they build massive ships twice the size of the Enterprise-D for intimidation purposes, and they begin formulating a plan to replace high level captains (and possibly others) like Picard with clones.

The other glimpse of the future would be from Romulan captain Telek R'Mor in 2351 who made contact with the USS Voyager in the future through a micro-wormhole and could give them technical observations, scans of the ship, the crew's personal messages to their families and official reports to Starfleet, and vague details about the Federation's future.
Picard was simply only one of many Starfleet officers to be replaced. And twenty years before Nemesis he was already Captain of the Stargazer.

No time travel needed to explain it.
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Old June 8 2013, 04:26 PM   #40
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

I was under the impression that Shinzon had had accelerated aging. No ? Haven't seen it in a while.
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Old June 8 2013, 04:46 PM   #41
The Festivus Awakens
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Dukhat wrote: View Post
Shinzon was created twenty years before Nemesis to be a clone of Picard. Why? Why would the Romulans of twenty years before have known where Picard was going to end up in the future? He would have just been captain of the Stargazer at the time, just another average officer commanding an average ship.
The Romulans have two pieces of knowledge about future events.

One would be from interrogations and "mind sifting" of the survivors of the Enterprise-C (in particular Tasha Yar) in 2344, who could tell them about Picard, the Enterprise crew, the Enterprise-D, and the future strategic situation in the quadrant... with a twist: In this alternate universe, the Federation is much more militaristic due to being in a constant state of war and is on the verge of being conquered by the Klingons.

The Romulans might have based their whole strategy around this glimpse of what they didn't know was an alternate future. They take an even more aggressive stance toward the Klingons, they return to the galactic stage, they build massive ships twice the size of the Enterprise-D for intimidation purposes, and they begin formulating a plan to replace high level captains (and possibly others) like Picard with clones.

The other glimpse of the future would be from Romulan captain Telek R'Mor in 2351 who made contact with the USS Voyager in the future through a micro-wormhole and could give them technical observations, scans of the ship, the crew's personal messages to their families and official reports to Starfleet, and vague details about the Federation's future.
Picard was simply only one of many Starfleet officers to be replaced. And twenty years before Nemesis he was already Captain of the Stargazer.

No time travel needed to explain it.
Well then, you probably should have quoted his post to point that out, instead of mine where I was answering a very specific question about how the Romulans could possibly know where Picard would end up.
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Old June 8 2013, 05:26 PM   #42
JarodRussell
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post

The Romulans have two pieces of knowledge about future events.

One would be from interrogations and "mind sifting" of the survivors of the Enterprise-C (in particular Tasha Yar) in 2344, who could tell them about Picard, the Enterprise crew, the Enterprise-D, and the future strategic situation in the quadrant... with a twist: In this alternate universe, the Federation is much more militaristic due to being in a constant state of war and is on the verge of being conquered by the Klingons.

The Romulans might have based their whole strategy around this glimpse of what they didn't know was an alternate future. They take an even more aggressive stance toward the Klingons, they return to the galactic stage, they build massive ships twice the size of the Enterprise-D for intimidation purposes, and they begin formulating a plan to replace high level captains (and possibly others) like Picard with clones.

The other glimpse of the future would be from Romulan captain Telek R'Mor in 2351 who made contact with the USS Voyager in the future through a micro-wormhole and could give them technical observations, scans of the ship, the crew's personal messages to their families and official reports to Starfleet, and vague details about the Federation's future.
Picard was simply only one of many Starfleet officers to be replaced. And twenty years before Nemesis he was already Captain of the Stargazer.

No time travel needed to explain it.
Well then, you probably should have quoted his post to point that out, instead of mine where I was answering a very specific question about how the Romulans could possibly know where Picard would end up.
But it was directed at both posts. First, the Romulans didn't even need to know that Picard specifically would end up somewhere: they cloned a lot of officers, including Picard. Second, he already was quite a big name in Starfleet, being Captain of the Stargazer and all.
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Old June 8 2013, 06:35 PM   #43
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

... or, it's a plot hole.
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Old June 8 2013, 06:40 PM   #44
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Maurice wrote: View Post

TWOK hangs on a dozen too-convenient coincidences, including: Reliant can't tell one planet from another,
...
Hey, it's just standard practice! You always navigate a system by simply counting the off the planets as you approach the primary. Nobody expects "VI" to go missing, so of course you're going to think that "V" really is "VI." Them's the breaks! Space flight involves risks that can't be minimized.

Suppose that aliens are approaching our solar system shortly after Uranus has exploded. [No jokes allowed.]

They'd say "There's #9 [Pluto] ... used to be a planet, anyway. Now there's #8 [Neptune], mark that one off."

He goes on. "Next is ... where is it ... where is ... must be here somewhere, check the charts ... ahh, there it is, Sol #7! Wow, those rings are spectacular! I can't wait to see the next one, which is supposed to be even better!"

"Hey, quit sightseeing! Our instructions are to destroy #4, which is lifeless, for our experiment."

"Okay, I can see it in the telescope. Didn't know it was blue and had one large moon."

"Shut up and arm the destructor beam!"
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Old June 8 2013, 06:51 PM   #45
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Re: Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Real life is full of plot holes. Each of us is not privy to every detail in everyone else's lives, so things they do may seem illogical and inconsistent with what we know from their past. But to them it might be perfectly logical.
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