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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old June 7 2013, 09:57 PM   #91
MacLeod
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Re: TrekCore: "Important News about DS9 in HD Coming May 10"

^Agreed, studios will spend the minimum amount it has to in order to make a product.

The best we can hope for is that they might be able to re-do some of the battles using existing CGI models. And fix errors like the Definat's registry after it was replaced.
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Old June 7 2013, 10:13 PM   #92
Aatrek
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Re: TrekCore: "Important News about DS9 in HD Coming May 10"

Dream wrote: View Post
In this topic, fans want CBS to spend as much money as possible putting in giant CGI space battles.

In reality, CBS will look to spend as little money as possible.
That's assuming they want to spend the money on DS9 at all at this point. We still don't know what's going on there.
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Old June 7 2013, 10:17 PM   #93
Dukhat
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Re: TrekCore: "Important News about DS9 in HD Coming May 10"

Dream wrote: View Post
In this topic, fans want CBS to spend as much money as possible putting in giant CGI space battles.

In reality, CBS will look to spend as little money as possible.
I wouldn't be a Star Trek fan if I thought otherwise.

However, if the original VFX can't stand up to an HD transfer, they'll need to be recreated, no matter what it's going to cost CBS, if they want to sell DS9 blurays.
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Old June 8 2013, 03:53 AM   #94
mswood
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Re: TrekCore: "Important News about DS9 in HD Coming May 10"

Dukhat wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
In this topic, fans want CBS to spend as much money as possible putting in giant CGI space battles.

In reality, CBS will look to spend as little money as possible.
I wouldn't be a Star Trek fan if I thought otherwise.

However, if the original VFX can't stand up to an HD transfer, they'll need to be recreated, no matter what it's going to cost CBS, if they want to sell DS9 blurays.
Not really

First assumption if they do them at all is that we get the TNG process.

But DS9 is vastly harder to do then TNG on fx work pre CGI. The amount of model based fx is huge compared to TNG. Not only did they do more complex shots but shots we far, far more models, that means far more individual elements.

That alone will increase the cost to CBS. Thats without even getting to CGI issues.

As for the CGI, in seasons 6 - 7. By the time seasons 6 - 7 comes up CBS might very seriously just upscale those fx, and figure that we got you to purchase the first five seasons, the next two your going to buy even if the FX are just upscaled because you are still going to get a the vast bulk of material (the live action) in HD.

Frankly unless they can find the stored files for all episodes, I truly can't see them trying to accurately recreate several large scale episodes of DS9.

If they find that all those files are saved, would they pony up to the corrent holders of them, so they could use them? Or are the holders of them going to try to get the work farmed out to them? Would CBS be willing to do so? I honestly don't know.

Now I would hope that if the materials can be found that CBS would make it happen even if that meant farming those shots back out to those who hold them (or the companies if either still exist).

But it certainly wouldn't surprise me to see CBS just upscale the CGI side of things.
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Old June 10 2013, 02:24 AM   #95
Dukhat
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Re: TrekCore: "Important News about DS9 in HD Coming May 10"

mswood wrote: View Post
First assumption if they do them at all is that we get the TNG process.

But DS9 is vastly harder to do then TNG on fx work pre CGI. The amount of model based fx is huge compared to TNG. Not only did they do more complex shots but shots we far, far more models, that means far more individual elements.

That alone will increase the cost to CBS. Thats without even getting to CGI issues.
First of all, I wasn't referring to the model shots. I was referring to the CGI fleet shots from seasons 6 and 7. But on the subject of the former, why would upconverting the original fx increase CBS's cost? It's working for TNG just fine. And as for the latter...

As for the CGI, in seasons 6 - 7. By the time seasons 6 - 7 comes up CBS might very seriously just upscale those fx, and figure that we got you to purchase the first five seasons, the next two your going to buy even if the FX are just upscaled because you are still going to get a the vast bulk of material (the live action) in HD.

Frankly unless they can find the stored files for all episodes, I truly can't see them trying to accurately recreate several large scale episodes of DS9.

If they find that all those files are saved, would they pony up to the corrent holders of them, so they could use them? Or are the holders of them going to try to get the work farmed out to them? Would CBS be willing to do so? I honestly don't know.

Now I would hope that if the materials can be found that CBS would make it happen even if that meant farming those shots back out to those who hold them (or the companies if either still exist).

But it certainly wouldn't surprise me to see CBS just upscale the CGI side of things.
If the original CGI fleet shots can't be upconverted, then it can't be upconverted. Simple as that. That's why Babylon 5 is not on bluray. They'd have to go back and redo the CGI VFX for every single episode of that series. And CBS is not going to sell blurays with shitty-looking CGI just because the first five seasons were relatively CGI-free.

As for DS9, if it turns out that upconversion is not possible, then those CGI fleet shots will have to be redone. The point I was making is that there's no reason why the new CGI fleet shots would have to match the old footage. As long as the Defiant is in there, they could create all new ship models if they so desired. The issue I had was that one of the original VFX personnel stated that he still had all the CGI ship models stored on his computer so that they could reuse them when and if DS9 ever gets the HD treatment.
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Old June 11 2013, 02:44 AM   #96
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Re: TrekCore: "Important News about DS9 in HD Coming May 10"

When I said just doing what TNG has done, basically post production of all teh aspects of the show, on the FX side that would be more expensive with DS9. As each ship has multiple elements do it.

We have already had interviews talking about how TNG is getting harder to due thanks to the FX, and well time is money. COnsider that many, many fx shots in DS9 have far, far more elements then TNG's shots did. Again that means more elements to scan, to match up. Just takes more time.

I certainly expect that the motion control model shots wont be up converted.

There are two issues here. They can upconvert the files they already have just off the old standard edition master. It would look fairly poor.

Now they are also talking about files that have been found, and that if they can find enough of them they can for the most part just render them for HD without much work at all, just processing time.

Here we have no idea if the holders of those files are willing to let CBS use them/ or pay to use them. We don't know if CBS is willing to farm out the work if that is what the holders are trying to achieve (again have no idea, how much will be found, we have only heard from the supplier who did the least amount of work on DS9, though I was very surprised they worked on very light fx episode the Waltz, ect,e ct).

Certainly CBS could create less detailed CGI effects that were rendered for HD, that don't match the original shots. Just like they could also spend a huge amount of tiem and money to completely try to match each shot (very unlikely).

But my point is that CBS doesn't have to do anything to the CGI if they don't want to. THey can simply upscale, off the low definition master (we saw how that looked with models and live action, not very good at all). That would be the worst possible outcome (outside of no release at all). But it could happen.
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Old June 15 2013, 08:18 AM   #97
LOKAI of CHERON
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Re: TrekCore: "Important News about DS9 in HD Coming May 10"

mswood wrote: View Post
THey can simply upscale, off the low definition master (we saw how that looked with models and live action, not very good at all). That would be the worst possible outcome (outside of no release at all). But it could happen.
If this is their approach I am out. The "Tribble-ations" upscale was just horrible. Putting DS9 out like this on an HD carrier would be nothing more than a cynical cash grab - of the very worst kind.

Should this scenario come to pass, I would urge fans to boycott the release - both to send CBS a clear message it isn't good enough and, frankly, avoid the sheer disappointment of excitedly popping a disc in their machines to be greeted by a hideous visual mess.
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Old June 15 2013, 08:48 AM   #98
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Re: TrekCore: "Important News about DS9 in HD Coming May 10"

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. This fear mongering is unwarranted.
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