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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 8 2013, 12:50 AM   #526
BillJ
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
When it came to engineering, Scotty was always a straight shooter. He never would have implied that the Excelsior had transwarp drive only to the degree that his grandmother with wheels would have been a wagon, if it weren't his professional opinion that the Excelsior's transwarp drive couldn't work.
There is personal pride involved where the Enterprise is concerned and something like the Excelsior would eventually push older starships out of service.

And why would Scott need to pull anything out of the Excelsior transwarp computer if he was convinced the technology wouldn't work?

Star Trek III wrote:
SCOTT: Aye sir. The more they over-think the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. ...Here, Doctor, souvenirs from one surgeon to another. I took it out of her main transwarp computer drive.
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Old June 8 2013, 01:03 AM   #527
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Back to ship sizes! This link has a few set plans from Into Darkness, including the turbolift plaza (which is actually an oval and not circular as I'd believed). If anyone can make out the scale on the top blueprint, we've got a definitive deck height and the exact between-deck spacing.

http://www.behance.net/gallery/STAR-...RKNESS/6414465


Pics of the CG turbolift plaza and physical set here: http://forums.luxology.com/topic.asp...t=77509&page=1
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Old June 8 2013, 01:08 AM   #528
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
When it came to engineering, Scotty was always a straight shooter. He never would have implied that the Excelsior had transwarp drive only to the degree that his grandmother with wheels would have been a wagon, if it weren't his professional opinion that the Excelsior's transwarp drive couldn't work.
I think what was implied by that line was that transwarp drive didn't make the Excelcior better than the Enterprise. I think this is supported by the other line about that ship at the end of IV.
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Old June 8 2013, 01:10 AM   #529
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Back to ship sizes! This link has a few set plans from Into Darkness, including the turbolift plaza (which is actually an oval and not circular as I'd believed). If anyone can make out the scale on the top blueprint, we've got a definitive deck height and the exact between-deck spacing.
Deck plans are too small.
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Old June 8 2013, 01:21 AM   #530
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

BillJ wrote: View Post
And why would Scott need to pull anything out of the Excelsior transwarp computer if he was convinced the technology wouldn't work?

Star Trek III wrote:
SCOTT: Aye sir. The more they over-think the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain. ...Here, Doctor, souvenirs from one surgeon to another. I took it out of her main transwarp computer drive.
So not even the regular warp drive would work...

With respect to the transwarp drive questions, I'm to chalk any issues here up to TSFS not being a perfect movie!
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Old June 8 2013, 01:26 AM   #531
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

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So not even the regular warp drive would work...
But we don't even know if transwarp includes a regular warp drive or if that is a separate entity.

It really all comes down to personal interpretation, unless Paramount makes Star Trek III.5: Why Didn't Transwarp Drive Work?
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Old June 8 2013, 02:28 AM   #532
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Belz... wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Seems perfectly plausible to me
I don't think so. Mr Scott's Guide... is unofficial. All 'more-or-less official' books after TNG said that transwarp was a failure.
Actually, the TNG tech manual is the only one that claims this, as does the Star Trek Chronology which uses the TNG manual as source material.

And as already mentioned, there's ALOT in the TNG manual that is either apocryphal or self-contradictory. It's an interesting read, but not much more than that.
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Old June 8 2013, 04:40 AM   #533
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

As far as I know, the "failure" of transwarp drive was due to the popular belief that the Excelsior broke down because of this deficiency. Mr. Scott's skepticism (based on not wanting to feel obsolete, as with the lingering subplot of STII) caused people to literally assume transwarp drive was bunk.

In short: most people missed the point of why the Excelsior sputtered out.
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Old June 8 2013, 05:03 PM   #534
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

The way warp was portrayed in Into Darkness (such as when the Vengeance knocked the Enterprise out of warp) seemed almost like one of the "corridors" Voyager portrayed the Borg using.
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Old June 8 2013, 05:11 PM   #535
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Yeah warp effects have never been consistent.
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Old June 8 2013, 05:22 PM   #536
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Seems perfectly plausible to me
I don't think so. Mr Scott's Guide... is unofficial. All 'more-or-less official' books after TNG said that transwarp was a failure.
Actually, the TNG tech manual is the only one that claims this, as does the Star Trek Chronology which uses the TNG manual as source material.

And as already mentioned, there's ALOT in the TNG manual that is either apocryphal or self-contradictory. It's an interesting read, but not much more than that.
And I thought transwarp drive was what every TNG ship was using. Hence the introduction of the new warp scale in TNG.
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Old June 8 2013, 06:34 PM   #537
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

It's a possibility, also, assuming the TNG books are wrong. It's never mentioned as such, however, and with Voyager saying Transwarp is something the Federation don't have, I think it's unlikely.
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Old June 8 2013, 06:46 PM   #538
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Belz... wrote: View Post
It's a possibility, also, assuming the TNG books are wrong. It's never mentioned as such, however, and with Voyager saying Transwarp is something the Federation don't have, I think it's unlikely.
Or transwarp is just a buzzword along the lines of next generation, 3G we use today. It could mean any propulsion technology that is comparable to a warp drive, but different in one or another, including drives that are actually faster (as seen in Voyager, TNG, etc.), drives using a different mechanism to achieve FTL without being faster, and drives that are warp drives that do something differently. It is also possible that "transwarp" drives were being renamed back to "warp" drives after each generation.
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Old June 8 2013, 07:42 PM   #539
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Transwarp uses corridors and was used extensively by the Borg from TNG onwards and retrofitted into the USS Voyager (STV) and USS Monitor (Shatner books).

Whatever the Vengeance is using it is obviously very fast indeed, though calling it true Transwarp is not possible as it uses a completely different principle and would mean that the NuEnterprise was using it as well which we know is not the case.

The warp speeds used in the new films are very fast but not Transwarp speed which is so fast it is used for crossing quadrants and ships using it travel in a completely different way (transwarp corridors), if the NuEntperprise was using even an advanced type of warp speed and the Vengeance was using true Transwarp they would not have met unless the Vengeance dropped out of Transwarp on top of the Enterprise which did not seem to be the case from the footage in the film.

Whatever new type of Warp the Vengeance used I am hoping that they spent the year between the Vengeance crash and rechristening retrofitting the NuEnterprise with it.
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Old June 9 2013, 08:03 PM   #540
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

It seems the USS Vengeance may actually be larger than we thought. It's 2.5x the Enterprise's size in this graphic:


And here's the ever-changing bridge window. It seems the taller, narrower veraion seen when the Enterprise is on the Klingon border and again at the very end correctly matches the window on the set (which has a definite height of 8', I guesstimated a width of 25'):

Forgive the shitty quality of the pics, they're from YouTube clips. Enterprise pic from www.cygnus-x1.net.
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