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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 7 2013, 04:05 PM   #31
Ometiklan
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

newtontomato539:

It’s not that Gary Mitchell wouldn’t be a retread, but rather that given what was known at the time (the bad guy is more than human), my preferred option for villains would have put Gary Mitchell over Khan. In general, my preferences would have been:
1. New opposing force/issue (not necessarily a “villain”)
2. New villain
3. New take on Gary Mitchell based on new timeline
4. Innovative version of Khan based on new timeline
5. Khan as we have seen him before

I think the movie falls in with #5.

But good point on 2233, we don’t know what everything looked like exactly. At best we have what they looked like in “The Cage” circa 2254. I guess I would anticipate that engineering/starship design would not change so significantly in 20 years that the Kelvin’s bridge, engineering/shuttle bays, the weapons, etc. would look so different. As I said originally, I think it would have been a better choice to show the Kelvin much more like the TOS ships, and thus add impact to the changes in design/technology etc. resulting from the changes in the timeline. It’s an artistic opinion.

Belz:
“In what way does the screen stuff not support X ?”

I was using it as a general comment on how to interpret the information provided in the movie: do you go with what a character says is going on or do you base your decisions on what is shown on screen? When you replied that some stuff was explained in the movie and that that was the end of the discussion, my point was that if what is portrayed on screen makes no sense can we determine if there is an explanation that is more reasonable, or just chalk it up to bad screenwriting. I would very much appreciate an explanation of the actions of Marcus or Khan that make more sense in the context of what is actually portrayed on screen. Some commenters have provided some good points on other issues, but I still don’t think Marcus’ plan or Khan’s assassination plan made any sense at all. My points 21 and 23.

“He did dick all. Automated repair function could have replaced him.”

I agree totally. The character was poorly written, and any other engineering character could have replaced him. But that further highlights my point on Carol. No one even need replace her. If she did not exist, all the same information would have been conveyed and achievements would have occurred.

CommishSleer:
It's just a minor nitpick, but it left me wondering, so I pondered alternatives. If you can think of something that makes more sense, please add it (another commenter had posted it might be some kind of nested-sector-based system, which might work). I just wondered why the screenwriters didn't use a coordinate system that either 1) makes some sense based on portraying a location in a 3 dimensional space as large as the galaxy, or 2) used a coordinate system that has already be portrayed in Star Trek.

Last edited by Ometiklan; June 7 2013 at 04:15 PM. Reason: update response to older post
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Old June 7 2013, 04:12 PM   #32
Avon
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

NuKhan was an occasionally sympathetic anti-hero. he was not presented as this before. so #4.

also your first post was so long that you could challenge stj for the 'insanely super-long post that defies common-sense' crown.
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Old June 7 2013, 04:19 PM   #33
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Wow. Out of curiosity, I copied the OP into a Word file. It was ten pages long (single-spaced) and 6697 words. That's gotta be a record.
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Old June 7 2013, 04:25 PM   #34
beamMe
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Franklin wrote: View Post
Wow. Out of curiosity, I copied the OP into a Word file. It was ten pages long (single-spaced) and 6697 words. That's gotta be a record.
Well, tldr
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Old June 7 2013, 04:38 PM   #35
Belz...
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Ometiklan wrote: View Post
“In what way does the screen stuff not support X ?”

I was using it as a general comment on how to interpret the information provided in the movie: do you go with what a character says is going on or do you base your decisions on what is shown on screen?
Both, and I think it's enough to have a good idea of the plan.

Marcus wanted to eliminate Khan with the torpedoes. An ironic way of killing his own crew, as well. The torpedoes would spread and damage locations around Kronos, prompting the Klingons to find the disabled Enterprise and destroy her, and leading to a war that Marcus thought he would win with either one or several Dreadnaughts.

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Well, tldr
tlrd for me (too long, read diagonally).
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Old June 7 2013, 06:17 PM   #36
Set Harth
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

I suspect this issue has been addressed before, so apologies if I'm covering old ground here, but if Marcus wanted a war with the Klingons why didn't he simply use transwarp beaming to wipe them out at long distance? Or did he want a more "conventional" conflict, the kind that would garner public approval and facilitate an even greater military buildup of the fleet?
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Old June 7 2013, 06:46 PM   #37
beamMe
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Set Harth wrote: View Post
I suspect this issue has been addressed before, so apologies if I'm covering old ground here, but if Marcus wanted a war with the Klingons why didn't he simply use transwarp beaming to wipe them out at long distance? Or did he want a more "conventional" conflict, the kind that would garner public approval and facilitate an even greater military buildup of the fleet?
He wanted to reshape Earth society by way of this war. Wiping the Klingons out from a distance wouldn't have served his goals.
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Old June 7 2013, 07:29 PM   #38
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

How would he wipe out the Klingons with transwarp beaming ?
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Old June 7 2013, 07:57 PM   #39
Avon
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

beaming their heads from their shoulders from a quadrant away?

though then you're left with the problem of what to do with several billion klingon heads
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Old June 7 2013, 09:50 PM   #40
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Also remember, this is an alternate timeline so nothing has to be exactly the way we think it should have been - that is the real time line..this is the alternate one where anything goes, it is developing it's own niche and this is only the 2nd. movie.
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Old June 7 2013, 10:26 PM   #41
BillJ
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Belz... wrote: View Post
How would he wipe out the Klingons with transwarp beaming ?
You could easily beam WMD's all across the surface of the Klingon homeworld and aboard all ships/bases that you knew the location of. You might not completely wipe them out, but with a co-ordinated effort it would be a hell of a first strike.
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Old June 7 2013, 10:29 PM   #42
Belz...
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Well, when's the last time a writer used their sci-fi tech to their logical conclusion, right ?

junxon wrote: View Post
beaming their heads from their shoulders from a quadrant away?

though then you're left with the problem of what to do with several billion klingon heads
Trophies for everybody !
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Old June 8 2013, 12:56 AM   #43
Hober Mallow
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

newtontomato539 wrote: View Post
Yet another "JJ Abrams Sucks!" thread
Yet another post whining about criticism.
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Old June 8 2013, 12:58 AM   #44
BillJ
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
newtontomato539 wrote: View Post
Yet another "JJ Abrams Sucks!" thread
Yet another post whining about criticism.
I think there's much to be critical about this film, but there is also much to like.
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Old June 8 2013, 02:42 AM   #45
M'Sharak
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Re: My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
newtontomato539 wrote: View Post
Yet another "JJ Abrams Sucks!" thread
Yet another post whining about criticism.
Eh.

On the intermittent occasions when they appear, newtontomato's posts are nonsensical or comical more often than anything, and this one certainly didn't merit that kind of cheap-shot response. Or any response at all, really.
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