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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 4 2013, 10:37 PM   #16
starburst
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

I have to admit I was hoping he was John Harrison, all the fan speculation from a year or so before kinda ruined it for me and the scene may have played out better for me if I had no idea before hand he was Khan until they discovered the "300 year old frozen man" in the torpedo.

To be honest make him just John Harrison and the rest of the film can be identical, make him an experiment of genetic engineering by Starfleet in the years after the Kelvin which explains his strength and his blood. The 72 (or whatever other oddly specific number) could be other test subjects that were frozen away that he wanted to save but were told were dead, an act that Kirks 'commanders' had done which he 'can not forgive'.

But in the end he was a pretty bad bad guy who if he hadnt been outsmarted (like Khan was) by Spock then he could have done some seriously bad things with that ship.
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Old June 5 2013, 11:44 PM   #17
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

I enjoyed the movie but I never bought Cumberbatch as Khan. Sorry, but he never sold me on that one. At least with Kirk or Spock I can see at least SOMETHING in their performances that makes me say "Okay, that is him" . With this new Khan the accent was wrong,the look was wrong, mannerisms were wrong.... They should have created their own character rather than recycling Khan.

They also need to quite bringing back old Spock to explain everything. The torch has been passed. Let him fade into history already.
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Old June 6 2013, 12:18 AM   #18
marksound
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

How about this?

In the next movie we find out that Harrison wasn't really Khan but another Augie Doggie who used Khan's name. The real Khan is stored away somewhere like the Ark at the end of Raiders.

Instant Retcon's gonna get you ...
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Old June 6 2013, 01:02 AM   #19
Ain Jalut
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

ichab wrote: View Post
I enjoyed the movie but I never bought Cumberbatch as Khan. Sorry, but he never sold me on that one. At least with Kirk or Spock I can see at least SOMETHING in their performances that makes me say "Okay, that is him" . With this new Khan the accent was wrong,the look was wrong, mannerisms were wrong.... They should have created their own character rather than recycling Khan.

They also need to quite bringing back old Spock to explain everything. The torch has been passed. Let him fade into history already.
I agree about Spock, that was completly unnecessary.
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Old June 6 2013, 05:05 AM   #20
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

but AWESOME. I just about jumped out of my chair right about then; didn't make the "New Vulcan" connection...
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Old June 6 2013, 06:09 AM   #21
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

Yeah the Old Spock thing was weird. I actually laughed. I also agree that it would have worked without Khan, and that him being Khan didn't have any effect on the box office.
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Old June 6 2013, 06:20 AM   #22
-Brett-
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

I had the same thought leaving the theater. For all the fuss over Khan, the movie would have been better without him.
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Old June 6 2013, 10:00 AM   #23
Ain Jalut
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

BeatleJWOL wrote: View Post
but AWESOME. I just about jumped out of my chair right about then; didn't make the "New Vulcan" connection...
He was dropped out of the sky as far as the narrative was concerned.
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Old June 6 2013, 10:44 PM   #24
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

I knew Harrison's reveal was coming. Unfortunately, when it arrived in all it's painstakingly enunciated glory, it fell flat on it's face. There may as well have been a subtle tilt of the head and shift of the eyes towards the camera - hell, throw a sly wink in there and blast through the forth wall altogether.

It was about then it started to sink in I wasn't enjoying this film.
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Old June 6 2013, 11:37 PM   #25
JarodRussell
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
If this movie had been "nameless assistant villain gets used by evil Admiral to start a war" I'd have been bored.
It would have been the same damn movie, pretty much. Is the name Khan really the only thing that kept your interest?
It's kinda irritating how much some people think they need a name attached to be entertained. It's just a NAME, especially how it plays out in the final film. And especially since this film was ADVERTISED with the villain being JOHN HARRISON. Khan was a surprise reveal, remember?

It really doesn't matter in this film that it is Khan Noonien Singh. Genetically enhanced badass Starfleet agent John Harrison would have done exactly the same in the very same film.

In Space Seed, Khan was just a "villain of the week". How boring.
In TWOK, Khan was essential, since there was that backstory with Kirk that simply could not have existed without Khan being the villain. No random new villain could replace Khan's role in that film.



StarMan wrote: View Post
I knew Harrison's reveal was coming. Unfortunately, when it arrived in all it's painstakingly enunciated glory, it fell flat on it's face. There may as well have been a subtle tilt of the head and shift of the eyes towards the camera - hell, throw a sly wink in there and blast through the forth wall altogether.

It was about then it started to sink in I wasn't enjoying this film.
It's funny how he reveals himself. "My name is... Khan." and everybody looks quite concerned. Like the characters watched Space Seed and TWOK and already knew who Khan Noonien Singh was. But they didn't. Only the audience did.
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Old June 7 2013, 03:12 AM   #26
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
Ooooooh, I like that quite a bit.
I had wished for that.
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Old June 7 2013, 03:55 AM   #27
-Brett-
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
If this movie had been "nameless assistant villain gets used by evil Admiral to start a war" I'd have been bored.
It would have been the same damn movie, pretty much. Is the name Khan really the only thing that kept your interest?
It's kinda irritating how much some people think they need a name attached to be entertained. It's just a NAME, especially how it plays out in the final film. And especially since this film was ADVERTISED with the villain being JOHN HARRISON. Khan was a surprise reveal, remember?
It's lucky for us that the writers back in the day didn't have today's attitude toward new characters. Otherwise we'd still be rehashing the Talosians over and over again.
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Old June 8 2013, 03:24 AM   #28
Morpheus 02
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
How about this?

In the next movie we find out that Harrison wasn't really Khan but another Augie Doggie who used Khan's name. The real Khan is stored away somewhere like the Ark at the end of Raiders.

Instant Retcon's gonna get you ...
I was going to do a separate post to suggest just that.

Maybe Khan had the name switched so an enemy would kill the wrong person, or Harrison claimed to be Khan, so he could be more respected/valued, and made up some lie about it waking up.

Or perhaps son of Khan Noonian Singh?


Keith Hamilton Cobb
of Andromeda fame would have been an excellent Khan
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Old June 8 2013, 03:34 AM   #29
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

Morpheus 02 wrote: View Post

Keith Hamilton Cobb
of Andromeda fame would have been an excellent Khan
Why?

He wasn't a very good actor and hasn't worked in front of the camera since 2007.

I think if they truly wanted to do an "Indian" Khan they should've found a Bollywood actor to play the character.
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Old June 8 2013, 11:06 AM   #30
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Re: John Harrison was more interesting than (SPOILER)

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Been thinking, with all said and done and the supposed renegade Starfleet officer John Harrison revealed to be Khan, I've come to realize, I was more interested in the fiction of the John Harrison persona than I am in Khan...

So what does everyone else think? Would John Harrison be more interesting than Khan?
Good question, as questions are great for sparking discussion and obtaining access to varying views! That said, I was also more interested in John Harrison than Khan. After all, that was the character they built up the most out of the 2. Seeing some of his section 31 story could have been interesting, but alas...
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