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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 4 2013, 06:37 PM   #481
Gonzo
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

beamMe wrote: View Post
Gonzo wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post

Nope. The corridors are not the same height as the windows. In fact, if you look through the windows, you can see only one of the three rows of "rectangle" patterns on the walls. Your red arrow is also pointing at what I assume you think is a floor, but it isn't.

I don't mind if you agree or not WarpfactorZ, it looks like whats left of a floor to me and it is in line with the idea of 4 floors in the saucer rim as many here have shown.

The area exposed by the damage is far too large (height) an area to be just one floor, whether you like it or not.
Gonzo, you are, of course, right.

What we see in those pictures is probably no different than this: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a.../tmphd0549.jpg
That is my interpretation too.
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Old June 4 2013, 06:45 PM   #482
beamMe
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
In fact, someone show me where it is conclusively established that there are four or five decks along the saucer rim. 'Cause I don't think it ever was.
Look at the airlock on the neck-pylon, the door is at least as high as the windows on the neck, which in turn are at least as high as the larger windows you can see here on the saucer.
It's reasonable to assume that the saucer can be, at the rim, as high as five standard-height decks.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/a...ekxihd1008.jpg
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Old June 4 2013, 06:54 PM   #483
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
You can clearly see a single corridor through that hole.
Since some of us think we see two, it isn't as clear as you think. I think your bias may be playing tricks on you.

The three rows of rectangles along the circular wall is unmistakable, and as the ship pans by in the film, it is plain as day.
Analysing pixelated pictures is notoriously unreliable.

Would you mind answering my question about the shuttlebay, please ?
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Old June 4 2013, 08:23 PM   #484
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
In fact, someone show me where it is conclusively established that there are four or five decks along the saucer rim. 'Cause I don't think it ever was. Everyone is attacking me because I refuse to believe this, but in reality the deck plan of the Enterprise you're defending isn't canon.
Except no one here has claimed it was "conclusively established" or "canon." There is no official source backing up the claim of four or five decks in the saucer, and no one has cited such or claimed that it is official. What we are doing is providing visual evidence to support our point of view.

What has been established by the designers and in multiple official sources however, is the revised length of the movie Enterprise (which would be big enough to allow for four or five decks in the saucer rim), and you refuse to even acknowledge those sources, and cling to the obviously untrue 300 meter length because of... what? Tradition? It's a new movie series set in an alternate universe, so it's not as if the old Enterprise has vanished from existence or anything. Honestly, I don't understand why you consider it such a big deal.

You know, I wouldn't even particularly care if you just expressed your view and left it at that, but you keep making these conclusive declarations that "the argument is over!" and "this settles it" when nothing of the sort has happened, and you keep telling everyone to go off and do the work for you when you are the one making the extraordinary claims that need to be backed up with more evidence.
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Old June 4 2013, 08:34 PM   #485
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

WarpFactorZ is clearly getting a huge kick out of trolling all of you.
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Old June 4 2013, 09:17 PM   #486
Chemahkuu
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

The Stig wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ is clearly getting a huge kick out of trolling all of you.
But that's the thing. It's taking nearly zero effort to correct him, it's obvious from the start he wasn't going to change his mind, and he doesn't actually seem to be enjoying it that much. So trolling he might be, but it's the weakest effort I've seen in months.
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Old June 4 2013, 09:21 PM   #487
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

I'm still waiting for Warpy to respond to this post.
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Old June 4 2013, 09:54 PM   #488
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

The Stig wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ is clearly getting a huge kick out of trolling all of you.
Please don't accuse anyone of trolling. He's allowed to disagree, and we're allowed to question why he considers it so important, but we're not allowed to make accusations of trolling.
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Old June 4 2013, 10:36 PM   #489
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Gonzo wrote: View Post
I have had a closer look and it may in fact be 2 floors, I have used the top picture you posted Locutusofbored and I have added highlights to show the floors (amateurish using paint I know).

I should have made the writing bigger as well but you get the idea. If you save it to PC and then zoom in you can see it clearly.

Still disagree. Looks to me like a single corridor with enough room for one above and two below.
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Old June 4 2013, 11:24 PM   #490
M'Sharak
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
[...]
I know what I saw in the film: the hull breach revealed ONE typical circular Enterprise corridor. That's also what you can see through the windows to the right of the breach (note the "rectangles" on the wall). There are clearly three rows of them in both cases, as with this:

[Hotlinked image removed. The website scifanatic.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com is an image hosting server belonging to TrekMovie.com and may not be used for the purpose of posting embedded images at TrekBBS. - M']

<snip>
WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
[...]
Oh, I see them now:


[...]
WarpFactorZ, I'm pretty sure I've asked before that you not hotlink images from sites which are not yours. Images posted inline should be hosted on a website or image-sharing account which is registered to you. I've removed the image in your first post quoted above and the second (as can be seen) has been blocked from the host server end. Please don't do this again.

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
The Stig wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ is clearly getting a huge kick out of trolling all of you.
Please don't accuse anyone of trolling. He's allowed to disagree, and we're allowed to question why he considers it so important, but we're not allowed to make accusations of trolling.
Quite so. For things which need to be brought to the attention of the moderators, the button should be used:
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Old June 5 2013, 04:14 PM   #491
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

I think we just need ILM/Paramount/Bad Robot to release an official cutaway ASAP. And will end this size debate.

*Unless some internal people at ILM/Paramount/Bad Robot aren't 100% sure themselves.

Heck, with just the story lines from both of the Abrams movies, you could have accomplished just about everything on my tine-tiny Enterprise.
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Last edited by EJD1984; June 5 2013 at 04:25 PM.
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Old June 5 2013, 05:28 PM   #492
Belz...
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

You really think it will end debates ? The official statements didn't.
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Old June 5 2013, 05:33 PM   #493
EJD1984
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Belz... wrote: View Post
You really think it will end debates ? The official statements didn't.
Well at least it would quell them down to low grunting murmurs.
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Old June 6 2013, 03:48 AM   #494
Maxillius
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

33 pages over the span of a month and this guy *still* thinks nuE is only 300m? My advice is to give up trying to convince him. Just smile, nod, then turn back to your paper.

Anyway, I'm shocked that in the time divergence discussion, no one has brought up the Borg crash in the arctic that was discovered in that one episode of Enterprise. *That* is the divergence point. The discovery of the Borg 200+ years before Earth/the Federation was supposed to have known about them spurred the engineering projects to skip the dinky stuff like whatever came between the NX class and the Constitution in the prime timeline, and inflated the size of the Connie herself. In fact, even though we never see the Daedalus class alluded to at the end of Enterprise (the "Warp 7" ship), I'm sure that even that would have been worked over by the timeline contamination. IIRC, the prime Daedalus was barely capable of warp 4. The warp 5 project was funded mostly under the assumption that there may have been some truth in old Zefram's drunken ramblings. The discovery and subsequent dealings with the crashed Borg must've scared the hell out of Starfleet to the point of overdriving their designs to the point of being really very large.

Then again, the Xindi attack and Xindi threat didn't help ease Starfleet's peace of mind, but it sure did spur on ship tech research and development.

Last edited by Maxillius; June 6 2013 at 03:55 AM. Reason: Incomplete thought, thought of something else
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Old June 6 2013, 04:18 AM   #495
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Maxillius wrote: View Post
33 pages over the span of a month and this guy *still* thinks nuE is only 300m? My advice is to give up trying to convince him. Just smile, nod, then turn back to your paper.

Anyway, I'm shocked that in the time divergence discussion, no one has brought up the Borg crash in the arctic that was discovered in that one episode of Enterprise. *That* is the divergence point. The discovery of the Borg 200+ years before Earth/the Federation was supposed to have known about them spurred the engineering projects to skip the dinky stuff like whatever came between the NX class and the Constitution in the prime timeline, and inflated the size of the Connie herself.
Not neccesarily. The IDW comic series suggests that there was a starship Enterprise in service immediately before the brand new ship that Pike received. We never actually saw this older ship, but it was commanded by Captain Robert April and was implied to be a short-range survey ship carrying out exactly the kinds of missions that Kirk and crew would have in the original series. I'd bet that some events set in motion by the Narada's attack lead to the decommissioning of the smaller Enterprise much earlier than it otherwise would have and the construction of the larger design ten to twenty years sooner than it would have in the prime timeline.

Then again, the Xindi attack and Xindi threat didn't help ease Starfleet's peace of mind, but it sure did spur on ship tech research and development.
Which leads us to an interesting point. There's no evidence whatsoever for the existence of the Xindi anywhere in the Federation in the 23rd or 24th centuries. I'd almost believe that in the Prime Timeline the Xindi are actually extinct and that they are only alive in the alternate timeline that suffered extensive tinkering from TCW factions like the Sphere Builders. This would, if anything, explain the unusually large alien contingent on the Enterprise in the Abrams timeline (hell, it might even explain Madeline; she could pass for a Xindi Reptillian, or possibly just a female version of one, or even just the JJ Abrams re-imagining of one).
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