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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 5 2013, 08:16 PM   #46
Franklin
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
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Come on, guys. Q wasn't just playful. He had a bit of a mean streak, too.
He could be more petulant than downright mean, I'd say.
But he wasn't just fun and games either. Crew members died because of him, most notably in "Q Who?"
True. He certainly wasn't benign. He was dangerous, and the stakes associated with his acts were real. But in "Q Who?" propelling the Enterprise into Borg occupied space was still more of an impetuous act than one that was mean-spirited. Picard's foolish arrogance provoked Q, and for what it's worth, Picard is as much to blame as Q for how events unfolded after that. At the same time, the lives lost probably meant nothing to Q compared to the lesson he believes he taught Picard. And if he simply hit the reset button after Picard was humbled, then what was learned? It had to hurt. Wanna make an omelet? You gotta break some eggs.
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Old June 5 2013, 08:18 PM   #47
ralfy
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

Definitely a rehash. And if they try to do the same as they did for the recent movie, the result will be poor once more.
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Old June 5 2013, 09:04 PM   #48
AdmiralSteven
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

I'm done with the Borg. If they bring the Borg back I'm done with Star Trek! Q as well. The Enterprise is starting its 5 year mission, and since we all know that the galaxy is a big place, surely they can come with a new villain to fight. Please no Borg, or Q.
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Old June 5 2013, 10:15 PM   #49
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

Belz... wrote: View Post
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I think Orci and Kurzman balance him. He seems to come up with all the whack ideas, and they rein him in.
And then mess it up themselves.
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Old June 5 2013, 11:07 PM   #50
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

A Borg movie should be a full-on alien invasion movie. They're in right now. And so are zombie movies.

It's too bad Abrams isn't likely to direct the next one. I know he tends to be derivative of his hero Spielberg, but Abrams's more robust style lends itself well to this type of film. I think he would have made a better War of the Worlds.

For it to work, they'd pretty much have to turn the Borg up to eleven. Make the cubes truly massive, for example.

I can't help but picture the trailer:

A ground shot looking up (or perhaps across New York harbor) and seeing the silhouettes of these massive cubes poking through the distant sky.

With a bombastic modular panning effect (like a louder version of Spock's meld from ST09), as if it were bouncing off the Earth, we hear:

"We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us.

Resistance is futile."

It's haunting and chilling and makes the Borg awesome again.

It's certainly a bit cheap, and probably a little trite, but it's guaranteed to put butts in seats.

People can scoff and say it's the wrong reason to do something, but it is why Hollywood exists in the first place. That's one thing the "something original" crowd doesn't quite get. Those types of films aren't guaranteed to be successful. the modern market is so much different than the one 25 years ago. A TVH isn't likely to be as big of a success as it was.

Frankly, neither film has been the "tent pole" Paramount was hoping for. Certainly they've been hugely successful, but, going by the other threads, I'm sure most would agree that's due mostly to the "older" audience. The kids all went to FF6.

Suffice it to say, STO9 put the canvas down, and STiD pounded the stakes, but we still need the uber-mega blockbuster to pitch it up.

Zombie space invaders who sling a pop culture catch phrase can be that.

When that's done, people can start thinking about more "intimate" films, side projects, or a series.
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Old June 5 2013, 11:58 PM   #51
ichab
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Rehash is a fair criticism because it makes the franchise seem one note. Yes Nolan's use of the Joker was amazing even though it had been done in 1989. The other side of the coin is Lex Luthor ALWAYS being used in Superman movies. The Man of Steel film is breaking that trend. However when you use and reuse the same villain or plots over and over it makes the franchise seem stagnant and uninteresting. Batman and Superman have many other villains, but the Joker and Luthor are both the most recognizable. The same thing can be said about Trek. The Borg, Klingons, Romulans are Trek's most recognizable villains. So the idea to capitalize on their notoriety is what drives the decisions to use them to get patrons in seats in theatres.

With STID we have a third movie in a row that is thematically similar to the TWOK. The other two being ST 2009 and NEM. The fans asking "can't you do something else?" is a fair question.
Thank you. I'm getting a little tired of recycled stories. It seems to be an epidemic in Hollywood as of late. Star Trek is a story that takes place in outer space. If a writer can't come up with something original with a whole universe for a playground then he should give up the profession.

At least do something we haven't seen much of like the Gorn. Please no more Borg or Ferengi. And if they HAVE to rehash a Star Trek story, do something different. Khan wasn't the only good story told in the original Star Trek.
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Old June 6 2013, 12:26 AM   #52
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
we still need the uber-mega blockbuster to pitch it up.
Who is "we"?

I think that JJ Abrams has done a pretty good job so far with what he has, and honestly I just don't think the Star Trek brand can really do any better. I don't think it matters what kind of zombies or action you throw at it, a certain group of people just aren't willing to go see it. Star Trek is not and never will be that kind of blockbuster, no matter how much they try and amp it.
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Old June 6 2013, 12:49 AM   #53
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

ichab wrote: View Post
At least do something we haven't seen much of like the Gorn. Please no more Borg or Ferengi. And if they HAVE to rehash a Star Trek story, do something different. Khan wasn't the only good story told in the original Star Trek.
No, but outside of Klingons and Borg Khan is the most well known character, and he is one that hadn't already been done to death in other incarnations.

Everyone knows when you get a box full of toys you've never played with before you always play with the best ones right away, with the exception of Batman Begins but I think that has more to do with Nolan thinking every Batman villain was silly and wanted something that felt more "real".
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Old June 6 2013, 01:08 AM   #54
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
A Borg movie should be a full-on alien invasion movie. They're in right now. And so are zombie movies.

It's too bad Abrams isn't likely to direct the next one. I know he tends to be derivative of his hero Spielberg, but Abrams's more robust style lends itself well to this type of film. I think he would have made a better War of the Worlds.

For it to work, they'd pretty much have to turn the Borg up to eleven. Make the cubes truly massive, for example.

I can't help but picture the trailer:

A ground shot looking up (or perhaps across New York harbor) and seeing the silhouettes of these massive cubes poking through the distant sky.

With a bombastic modular panning effect (like a louder version of Spock's meld from ST09), as if it were bouncing off the Earth, we hear:

"We are the Borg. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us.

Resistance is futile."

It's haunting and chilling and makes the Borg awesome again.

It's certainly a bit cheap, and probably a little trite, but it's guaranteed to put butts in seats.

People can scoff and say it's the wrong reason to do something, but it is why Hollywood exists in the first place. That's one thing the "something original" crowd doesn't quite get. Those types of films aren't guaranteed to be successful. the modern market is so much different than the one 25 years ago. A TVH isn't likely to be as big of a success as it was.
I think this might be a fantastic blockbuster, and with the budget to show the Borg as horrifying as we know they are.. yeah it could end up sci fi horror.

And it would be interesting if they developed a virus to wipe them out and Kirk had to make the same choice Picard did and he chose differently.
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Old June 6 2013, 01:10 AM   #55
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

Yeah, honestly, if they're going to do the Borg, they need to do them differently than we've ever seen them. A full-on Alpha Quadrant invasion sound like just the thing to make the Borg awesome again.

Dammit, now I kind of want them to do a Borg movie.
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Old June 6 2013, 01:18 AM   #56
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

The books have a full on invasion. I kind of want to see this now too.

I'd love it though if the focal point of the invasion was another planet. Too much time spent on Earth already.
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Old June 6 2013, 02:14 AM   #57
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

dodge wrote: View Post
Roald wrote: View Post
God, I hate that word, REHASH...
Don't hate on words.
Re-imagine, rehash, same difference.
Off all those, rehash is the most appropriate since it has a derogatory streak.

Bringing back another old villain would be quite pathetic for a series set in the entire Milky Way galaxy... but if they do, it's gotta be the borg. They have some name recognition among the general public, whereas Q does not.

There would be a sort of brilliant laziness to picking Q, though. You get your character and reset button in a package deal.
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Old June 6 2013, 02:24 AM   #58
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Star Trek is not and never will be that kind of blockbuster
Nonsense.

There is absolutely no evidence that this is at all true. However, similar trends indicate that, given the right circumstances, Star Trek can be a mega blockbuster. If sparkly vampires can rake-in nearly $900 million, then there's no reason Trek can't double ST09's take if it really wanted to.

The fact of the matter is, nuTrek really isn't that much different from old Trek. It's more flashy and hip, but it's still very derivative. It's essentially old Trek in a sexy new wrapper--err lingerie as it were.

Trek has pretty much shed the stigma. This is due to myriad reasons but mostly just because science-fiction/fantasy is way more popular than it used to be. I mean, cons used to just be something for Trekkies. Now everyone goes to cons. I'm sure things like BBT have had an impact as well. And no doubt, the Abrams films helped a lot. In any case, Trek is way more hip than it's ever been.

People didn't opt out of STiD because it was Trek but because it didn't appeal to enough to make it a "must see" over the big stuff out last month. I suspect for most people it was a "I'll wait for the Blu-ray/On Demand/Netflix" thing.

A super-spectacle changes things. Because, for a lot of people, it does put Trek in the "must see" column.

The other thing it does, which is huge, is it appeals to a younger audience. If Trek can grab the kids, then the sky's the limit.

I don't know if there are any metrics on it, but I have to think the median Trekkie age is at least 40. The franchise needs some new blood. And that's all that's missing.

ST09 made Trek whole again. STiD has made amazing inroads internationally. Bring the kids in, and there's no reason a Trek movie can't pass $500m if not $600m.

And the high-school college crowd loves sci-fi/horror stuff.
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Old June 6 2013, 02:29 AM   #59
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I think that JJ Abrams has done a pretty good job so far with what he has
Trek movies have never been this popular. Not as much as I'd like for STID, but a very good pair of outings.

Star Trek is not and never will be that kind of blockbuster, no matter how much they try and amp it.
I think the "stigma" can be eventually reversed, myself.

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Yeah, honestly, if they're going to do the Borg, they need to do them differently than we've ever seen them. A full-on Alpha Quadrant invasion sound like just the thing to make the Borg awesome again.
Yeah. No queen, scary borg (hell, they were more scary in "Q Who" than in First Contact), large-scale threat. Throw in Klingon and romulan cooperation. Could be exciting if done well.
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Old June 6 2013, 05:59 AM   #60
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Re: I've started hating the word "rehash"...

If they did use the Borg, I really wouldn't mind. I think that a lot of people are mad because they were so secretive about the villain and then it turned out to be the one everyone already speculated it was. That said, they need to leave the secrecy stuff alone.
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