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Old June 4 2013, 08:41 PM   #166
137th Gebirg
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Here's a question. Does anybody understand why Arya hates the Hound soooo much? I get that he's done some wrong, but is he that bad?
She reiterated the reason for her hatred of Clegane when she accused him of riding down and murdering Mycah the innocent stable boy in front of the Brotherhood Without Banners. That, and his general association as the primary protector of the boy (Joffrey) who ordered her father's death.
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Old June 4 2013, 08:42 PM   #167
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

Venardhi wrote: View Post
Starbrow wrote: View Post
I think G.R.R. just wanted to shock his viwers/readers. There was so much more he could have done with this characters but just like with Ned, he threw the white flag.
I think you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, but you're welcome to your opinion.

Life doesn't get pretty red bows at the end of a character arc with the plots wrapped up nice and tidy. Choices are made and those choices have consequences. In this world, the consequences are often death.
From GEORGE R.R. MARTIN interview:

Ive said in many interviews that I like my fiction to be unpredictable. I like there to be considerable suspense. I killed Ned in the first book and it shocked a lot of people. I killed Ned because everybody thinks hes the hero and that, sure, hes going to get into trouble, but then hell somehow get out of it. The next predictable thing is to think his eldest son is going to rise up and avenge his father. And everybody is going to expect that. So immediately [killing Robb] became the next thing I had to do.

So as you can see it has nothing to do with life, G.R.R: just likes to be unpredictable and shock his audience.
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Old June 4 2013, 08:44 PM   #168
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

Starbrow wrote: View Post
So as you can see it has nothing to do with life, G.R.R: just likes to be unpredictable and shock his audience.
Is life not unpredictable? Or do you happen to be a member of a particular species of temporally nonlinear alien who reside in a wormhole somewhere?
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Old June 4 2013, 08:46 PM   #169
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

Starbrow wrote: View Post
G.R.R: just likes to be unpredictable and shock his audience.
You say that like those are bad traits in a writer.
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Old June 4 2013, 08:46 PM   #170
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
superdeluxe wrote: View Post
Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
It was a good episode. I actually gave it an average rating, though. It's the first episode that didn't feel that eventful..
Yeah, I understand why you're blinking, but that's still my reaction. I expected that it would be more of a battle and slaughter than it was. Pretty much everyone had left the room, the "Rains of Castamere" starts playing, and people are picked off like sheep with a few words thrown in. It was a nice episode, but I guess I just expected more.
That's what the Red Wedding is. It's not a battle. It's a massacre.
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Old June 4 2013, 09:10 PM   #171
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

DalekJim wrote: View Post
I do wish the show had previously established the Westeros rules between a guest and a host. Without those, the Red Wedding wasn't quite as shocking as it was in the books.
Looks like without the Guest Rights, people were shocked.
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Old June 4 2013, 09:11 PM   #172
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

Spock/Uhura Fan wrote: View Post
Here's a question. Does anybody understand why Arya hates the Hound soooo much? I get that he's done some wrong, but is he that bad?

He killed her friend, I think that is just cause. I mean at least for her.
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Old June 4 2013, 09:13 PM   #173
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

InklingStar wrote: View Post
Starbrow wrote: View Post
I think G.R.R. just wanted to shock his viwers/readers. There was so much more he could have done with this characters but just like with Ned, he threw the white flag.

I am guessing now, based on the movie episodes: with out the Wolfs the conflict is pretty much gone now, right? Who is going to fight Lannisters?
Stannis is still out there. The alliance with the Tyrells is shaky. Dany has dragons and an army. The Others (White Walkers) are coming, eventually. The Brotherhood Without Banners is still on the loose. And of course, not all the Stark bannermen pulled a Roose Bolton and switched sides. The North remembers...
Stannis lost his battle already in Season 2. So he is out of the game for now.
Dany is also out of the game, her 3 trump cards are still too young.
The Brootherhood is just a small band of bandits, they aren't really in the game.

So who is still playing the game?
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Old June 4 2013, 09:15 PM   #174
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

While the Red Wedding is surprising in its brutality, in the books it's not really a sudden reversal so much as an underlining of a point already made: despite his martial skill, Robb lacked the political mind necessary to win his war, and was too stubborn to accept that he had already lost. The most he could have hoped for would have been the preservation of his life and to reclaim his control of the North. There was really nowhere left for the character to go, dramatically speaking. The same is true for Catelyn, and for Ned at the point of his death.
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Old June 4 2013, 09:29 PM   #175
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

Starbrow wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
Starbrow wrote: View Post
I think G.R.R. just wanted to shock his viwers/readers. There was so much more he could have done with this characters but just like with Ned, he threw the white flag.
I think you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, but you're welcome to your opinion.

Life doesn't get pretty red bows at the end of a character arc with the plots wrapped up nice and tidy. Choices are made and those choices have consequences. In this world, the consequences are often death.
From GEORGE R.R. MARTIN interview:

Ive said in many interviews that I like my fiction to be unpredictable. I like there to be considerable suspense. I killed Ned in the first book and it shocked a lot of people. I killed Ned because everybody thinks hes the hero and that, sure, hes going to get into trouble, but then hell somehow get out of it. The next predictable thing is to think his eldest son is going to rise up and avenge his father. And everybody is going to expect that. So immediately [killing Robb] became the next thing I had to do.

So as you can see it has nothing to do with life, G.R.R: just likes to be unpredictable and shock his audience.
Ahh yes, very cut and dry there. Clearly he is single-minded in his desire to shock.

Fact is, the story requires Ned to die to set the war in motion, it requires Robb to die for various other developments. This is not their story. At some point he may have thought that these deaths would make for surprising developments in the story and highlighted them for the highest dramatic effect, but that doesn't mean they're the driving force behind the work.

Have you read the books? Have you even read that entire interview? I suspect not.
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Old June 4 2013, 09:30 PM   #176
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

Could he he have preserved his life? Seems to me Robb was dead no matter what. There was no longer any way he could have won the war. His idea to attack Casterly Rock was a stupid one, and Catelyn even said so before letting her emotion get the better of her. If he had surrendered to the Lannisters, then he would have quickly had his head separated from his body. I suppose there was a chance that if he had decided to cut his losses and throw in with Stannis he might not have been executed. Would even the combined remainder of Stannis and Robb's forces be enough to threaten the Lannisters, though?
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Old June 4 2013, 09:42 PM   #177
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

Could he heave preserved his life?
In the books? Yes, I think that until fairly late in the game, Robb could probably have negotiated a surrender that would have kept him alive and acknowledged as paramount lord of the North. Tywin is a fan of harsh gestures, but on tactical terms, not because he's personally vindictive, and in the long run leaving the Starks alive and in control of the North would have led to greater stability than something like the Red Wedding.
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Old June 4 2013, 09:44 PM   #178
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

I had to miss this episode Sunday due to a prior engagement. Then I log onto social media Monday and it was just filled with spoilers coming from all different kinds of people and sources. I did finally see the episode last night, but knowing that something "OMG" was going to happen and that it was going to happen to the Starks ("thanks" to whoever spoiled that to me over Facebook) the scene lost much of it's intended impact.

So I'm kind of doubly frustrated; frustrated that I didn't get the same experience that a lot of other people got, and frustrated that they've killed off some pretty likeable and important characters, and that in this universe the Starks will probably never be avenged.

Having gotten that off my chest, there's still things I like about the series and I'm sticking with it for now.

One other observation- the gratuitous violence in this season has gone a bit overboard, most notably in this last episode, and in the earlier episodes with the torture scenes. I like this show because it's smart, not because of the graphic portrayals of violence.
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Old June 4 2013, 09:46 PM   #179
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

I think the moment Roose Bolton started dealing with the Lannisters, any chance of the Starks retaining control of the North was gone.
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Old June 4 2013, 09:51 PM   #180
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Re: Game of Thrones 3.9 - "The Rains of Castamere" - Rate and discuss

There are various downsides to allying with the Boltons, though, of which Tywin would have been aware. But elaborating on that point would be more appropriate to the spoiler thread.
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