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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old June 3 2013, 02:34 PM   #301
rahullak
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Of course what Kira did was terrorism, and she freely admitted it on many occasions. Terrorism doesn't just mean "something the evil enemy does." It's a term that has a specific, objective definition, regardless of how pundits and politicians abuse it as a term of emotional rhetoric. Terrorism is is the use of random or excessive violence to induce fear and despair in a population in order to pressure them into abandoning an occupation, war, or other policy. It's generally a tactic used by a weaker group against a more powerful group that can't be defeated by force alone and thus must be demoralized to the point that its own leaders or populace decide to cut their losses and retreat. Which is exactly what happened in the Cardassian Occupation of Bajor.

In Khan's case, he used the tactics of terrorism for goals that were not actually terroristic. He bombed the archive in London, not to terrorize the populace, but to destroy the secret Section 31 facility it contained, and to lure the Starfleet leadership to a specific place so he could strike at them. Terrorism was just the cover he used, the feint that disguised his true intentions. This is something we've seen done in many movies, such as Die Hard.
I'm not disputing that there's an objective definition of terrorism. Yes there is. But we all know in reality that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. And in reality all we have are subjective interpretations of events when those events are not hard science experiments. No one has the all-seeing eye of God to have a completely objective view of events.

I'm only saying that the Bajoran government did not throw Kira into prison because they did not consider Kira's actions as terroristic. Or if they did, they pardoned it because it was in their just cause of freedom.

And Starfleet and the Federation do consider bombing their archives and killing people as acts of terrorism. I'll concede that we may interpret Khan's acts as non-terroristic but clearly militant, since we know his ultimate aims.
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Old June 3 2013, 02:50 PM   #302
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

rahullak wrote: View Post
I'm only saying that the Bajoran government did not throw Kira into prison because they did not consider Kira's actions as terroristic. Or if they did, they pardoned it because it was in their just cause of freedom.
More likely the latter. There's plenty of precedent for occupied and oppressed populations using terrorism as a means to achieve their freedom -- e.g. the Russian and French resistance movements vs. Nazi occupiers in WWII. It can be understood that these things are necessary evils in a time of war or occupation, without the need to whitewash the brutal reality of it by changing the label after the fact. On the contrary, it's necessary to be honest about the "evil" part of "necessary evil" so that you don't get in the habit and keep doing it after the need has ended (like the Kohn Ma did, for instance).

And again, Khan's actions were retaliation for Marcus's criminal actions. Marcus was ultimately the one who provoked everything that happened. He and Section 31 created the situation that led to Khan's violence. They found and awoke Khan, they made him mad, and they created the technologies he used to strike back. I just do not comprehend why you're trying to blame Kirk for Khan's acts and completely ignoring Marcus's far greater culpability.
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Old June 3 2013, 04:15 PM   #303
rahullak
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Christopher wrote: View Post

And again, Khan's actions were retaliation for Marcus's criminal actions. Marcus was ultimately the one who provoked everything that happened. He and Section 31 created the situation that led to Khan's violence. They found and awoke Khan, they made him mad, and they created the technologies he used to strike back. I just do not comprehend why you're trying to blame Kirk for Khan's acts and completely ignoring Marcus's far greater culpability.
I apologize, I jumped in between you and Cadet49 and so it wasn't clear what I was saying. I'm not ignoring Marcus' culpability. Blackmailing Khan into doing his dirty deeds is obviously illegal and immoral. Not to mention building a fleet in secret and attempting to precipitate war.

But, all that does not absolve Khan. Ultimately, it was he who chose to act in the manner that he has instead of finding a more peaceful way to settle the situation. This speaks to what he was capable of, the depths to which he could plunge and his dangerous nature. Kirk knew this. Note, I'm not blaming Kirk. He took a big risk in trusting Khan for however brief a time or to whatever small degree because hey, it's nuKirk: Leaps without looking and goes with instinct.

And also, it serves the needs of the movie makers to have more fun, action and drama rather than having nuKirk choose to inform Starfleet through New Vulcan or whatever other option he supposedly had.
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Old June 3 2013, 04:29 PM   #304
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

lol...you mentioning nuKirk gave me an image of Richard Dawson battling Khan with dueling britishisms!
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Old June 3 2013, 09:17 PM   #305
Rķu rķu, chķu
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

rahullak wrote: View Post
I'm only saying that the Bajoran government did not throw Kira into prison because they did not consider Kira's actions as terroristic.
Indeed, that provisional government almost certainly consisted largely OF former resistance fighters. Of course they're going to give one of their own a free pass.

And as Odo would later say (after Ibudan is released in 'A Man Alone' after serving time), "Killing Cardassians doesn't seem to be much of a crime these days".
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Old June 3 2013, 10:10 PM   #306
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

With regards to the first issue of 'After Darkness',

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Old June 4 2013, 12:05 AM   #307
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

CrazyHorse89 wrote: View Post
With regards to the first issue of 'After Darkness',

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Old June 4 2013, 01:08 AM   #308
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
CrazyHorse89 wrote: View Post
With regards to the first issue of 'After Darkness',

Or...

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Old June 4 2013, 03:03 AM   #309
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Cadet49 wrote: View Post
ATimson wrote: View Post
No, no...
I don't buy that. It doesn't make sense. Why would Harrison go to Qo'noS on his own with no way back? Why would he abandon his "family" with no way to get back to them?

Here's how I read the film.

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Old June 4 2013, 04:00 AM   #310
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Cadet49 wrote: View Post
ATimson wrote: View Post
No, no...
I don't buy that. It doesn't make sense. Why would Harrison go to Qo'noS on his own with no way back? Why would he abandon his "family" with no way to get back to them?

Here's how I read the film.

That's a possibility that I had not considered.

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Old June 4 2013, 04:05 AM   #311
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Remember Kirk's line about how it felt they were helping Khan instead of the reverse? I'm sure that even if Khan were nominally following Marcus's instructions, it was for his own purposes.
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Old June 4 2013, 08:35 AM   #312
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

My understanding, on opening night, rightly or wrongly, was that
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Old June 4 2013, 12:02 PM   #313
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
My understanding, on opening night, rightly or wrongly, was that
It's unfortunate; the film doesn't tell us what Harrison's plan was, leaving us to infer a plan based on hints. I feel a bit like Admiral Picard here, trying to understand the Romulans' "move, countermove, guile, and deceit."

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Old June 4 2013, 01:40 PM   #314
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

CrazyHorse89 wrote: View Post
With regards to the first issue of 'After Darkness',

I think it is Mekenna from the Sulu issue
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Old June 4 2013, 02:13 PM   #315
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Re: IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
CrazyHorse89 wrote: View Post
With regards to the first issue of 'After Darkness',

I think it is Mekenna from the Sulu issue
Interesting thought, but I don't know. She wasn't really villainous, just a hotheaded youth in need of life experience.
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