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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 30 2013, 07:05 AM   #421
OpenMaw
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Belz... wrote: View Post
Again, why do you think so ? There's precious little evidence in TOS or the movies, but the implication is that the Constitution is a special type of ship.
To my understanding what made her special was the mixture of military and science departments. After all we see strictly science vessels in movies like TSFS, and that doesn't contradict anything in TOS.

So, for me the logical conclusion is that the Enterprise is a special design because she was built to do a little of everything. Capable of performing combat and science duties at long ranges. However, up against a class specially designed to do one or the other, she's likely to fall behind.
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Old May 30 2013, 11:07 AM   #422
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Perhaps you're right.

Perhaps if TOS had more time and more money we would've seen other designs, such as dedicated science vessels, battleships and carriers, etc.

...but Trek series that followed TOS never showed us anything from that period that could qualify as bigger and badder than the Constitution, right up until the time of TSFS.
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Old May 30 2013, 02:06 PM   #423
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Makes me wish the FJ designs (particularly the Dreadnaught) were more than just shadow-canon.
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Old May 31 2013, 04:17 AM   #424
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Belz... wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
They're implied to be very powerful. Nothing and no one suggests MOST powerful.
I said AMONG the most powerful, Eddie.
My comment stands. We don't know for sure what the most powerful ships in the TOS starfleet looked like, nor can we say one way or the other that Enterprise would be among them.

The closest line we have is when Kirk tells Captain Christopher "There are only twelve like her in the fleet."
Yeah, which kinda implies that they are pretty special.
"Pretty special" and "pretty powerful" are not the same thing, nor does either imply "pretty large."

Again, why do you think so ? There's precious little evidence in TOS or the movies, but the implication is that the Constitution is a special type of ship.
And again "big" does not follow from "special," even in Star Trek, where the examples of "specialized" 24th century starships come in a variety of shapes and sizes from the tiny Defiant to the hulking (and, oddly, far more common) Galaxy class.

Besides, I'm reminded that USS Kelvin has been implied to be a pre-Narada design that is itself almost twice the size of the Constitution class in and of itself; in the Prime timeline, it could have easily still been in service by the time Pike visited Talos Four. Considering that the other ships in STXI are based on the same design school, that further implies that all seven of those starships would still have been in service well into TOS and we simply never saw them because Enterprise so rarely visited Earth.
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Old May 31 2013, 10:48 AM   #425
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

I grant all your points, man. In my opinion, these combine into a probability that the Constitution was the most advanced and most powerful Federation vessel, but in the absence of any definite evidence, however, it remains an unproven opinion.

As for the Kelvin, however, I'd like to remind you that the timeline had already been altered in First Contact. There's no way to know exactly what the consequences of that are, but personally I've always thought it explains the "differences" in Enterprise.
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Old May 31 2013, 02:23 PM   #426
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Belz... wrote: View Post
I grant all your points, man. In my opinion, these combine into a probability that the Constitution was the most advanced and most powerful Federation vessel, but in the absence of any definite evidence, however, it remains an unproven opinion.

As for the Kelvin, however, I'd like to remind you that the timeline had already been altered in First Contact. There's no way to know exactly what the consequences of that are, but personally I've always thought it explains the "differences" in Enterprise.
It has never been explicitly stated that the events in First Contact actually changed anything even after Cochrane gives the Vulcans a shock at the end of the film, even so it would fit in quite well with the new ship sizes and uprated technology in the new films.

It was suggested years ago that the First Contact film was the trigger for the Mirror Universe alternate reality but I never really bought into that as it didnt flow very well.

There have been so many time incursions that I am amazed the changes in the new films are as "shallow" as they are tbh, same people, same place etc etc.

I think the writers have got the mix of old and new about right.
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Old May 31 2013, 02:33 PM   #427
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Indeed. There's no explicit implication that there is a change. It's just my personal theory and interpreration of what we see on the show, and I happen to think it fits very well.
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Old June 1 2013, 07:19 PM   #428
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

BillJ wrote: View Post
The Keeper wrote: View Post
I began warming up to the nuEnterprise thanks to ID. She is earning my respect. When she popped up from her death-dive I felt my heart swell for her in a way it never has for this design before. Damn you JJ!
It felt like this Enterprise had earned her stripes in this film. She earned being labeled 'NCC-1701'.
I agree

Dr. Who introduced the idea of concrete being on a spaceship--which may have inspired JJ and his set look (easier actual locations, I know)

Well, maybe there is something to that:
http://www.npr.org/2013/05/31/187534...-semiconductor

Now to me, the idea of ships being skyscrapers in space is something I hadn't thought of before, with concrete and framing being used then towed--less shipyard, and more World Trade Center.

That seems to fit the Babylon 5 ethos more to me. I can see the Omega class more like that.

Last edited by publiusr; June 1 2013 at 09:04 PM.
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Old June 1 2013, 07:21 PM   #429
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

publiusr wrote: View Post
Dr. Who
OMG! How can you write that?!!
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Old June 2 2013, 01:54 AM   #430
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Not that the size debate wasn't confusing enough already, but the Revel plastic model kit for the Into Darkness enterprise is apparently at 1:500 scale and measures 58 centimeters long.

That would make the Enterprise exactly 294 meters long, slightly smaller than the TOS version.

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Old June 2 2013, 09:54 AM   #431
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Not that the size debate wasn't confusing enough already, but the Revel plastic model kit for the Into Darkness enterprise is apparently at 1:500 scale and measures 58 centimeters long.

That would make the Enterprise exactly 294 meters long, slightly smaller than the TOS version.

It also says on the box: Made in the EU - that's not canon either
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Old June 2 2013, 08:57 PM   #432
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread


It looks like they just took the USS Kelvin floorplan from the last movie and used it on the Enterprise. But still - it looks *so* cool.
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Old June 3 2013, 05:03 AM   #433
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

While we're back on this subject (ship scale), there's a scene in STiD after the Enterprise loses power and emergency lighting kicks in. We clearly see the edge of the saucer is two levels high, because one of them (round hallway) is exposed via hull rupture. So, arguments about 4 levels on the saucer rim are out.

Also, the total number of levels in the saucer can been guesstimated from the "plaza." There are about 8-10 levels, so figure 3-4 above the saucer, and 3-4 below (but that includes the "level" immediately beneath the dome and above the bottom dome, which is basically nothing).
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Old June 3 2013, 09:28 AM   #434
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

^During the run from the brig to the warp core, I counted 11 decks above Scotty and Kirk, and 9 below.

Perhaps someone else can corroborate?
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Old June 3 2013, 01:17 PM   #435
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
^During the run from the brig to the warp core, I counted 11 decks above Scotty and Kirk, and 9 below.

Perhaps someone else can corroborate?
Saw it again over the weekend, sounds about right as there was a lot above and below.

P.S WarpfactorZ

There are 4 levels on the saucer rim its just that some floors don't have windows, we were shown this in some promotional media for the first film when the Enterprise was being built. We could see how big the workmen were in comparison to the ship, if its the scene I think it is the damage covers 2 decks not one.

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