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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old June 2 2013, 12:15 PM   #46
JarodRussell
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post
Well sorry if I've wasted anyone's time by bringing juvenile ideas into this scholarly setting. Next time I have a half-baked hypothesis, I'll post it in the nether reaches of some science fiction show forum.
Don't ever let people stop you. Unless you have a gun and they say "Don't shoot!", or you're on a ledge and they say "Don't jump!", that's where you need to stop.

But if you think you're onto something there, then seriously, do something with it.

The established image of the world and the universe has been shaken so many times, and so many times those who brought new revelations have been laughed at, they have been prosecuted, they have been forced into denying their observations.

The replies in this thread are essentially driven by the same attitude.

Seriously, people, why do you feel the need to be so condescending? Either encourage him to read up on the subject, or leave it. What's wrong with you guys?

Especially in the extremely open field that is currently filled with mysterious "Dark Matter", which is the proper scientific term for "We don't really know jack shit what the fuck is going on here."


So go work on that theory if you're really after it, and present it to a couple of physicists, etc... the whole condescending attitude of "You don't even have a degree, you don't know shit." is sickening. You don't even have to prove it yourself, it's enough if you talk to others who are deep into the subject and inspire them to look at it themselves. Inspiration for new ideas doesn't need a degree. If then others who have a degree prove that the idea is wrong, nothing is lost. If they go "Uh, uhm, we never thought about that" and prove that it's right... hello there!
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Old June 2 2013, 04:46 PM   #47
Asbo Zaprudder
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

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Old June 2 2013, 05:23 PM   #48
Pavonis
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

I wonder if lawyers and physicians have similar "insightful contributions" from non-expert amateurs. Do people just wander into their offices and offer free advice on how to go about their work?
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Old June 2 2013, 05:32 PM   #49
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post
Well sorry if I've wasted anyone's time by bringing juvenile ideas into this scholarly setting. Next time I have a half-baked hypothesis, I'll post it in the nether reaches of some science fiction show forum.
Honestly, as I already indicated, and to clarify, my biggest problem with this thread is that it was falsely advertised in the title as being about a scientific theory (calling it a "theory" in the Science and Technology forum suggests that).

If it had been properly identified as just a thought (it doesn't rise to the level of being a scientific hypothesis, either), I'd have had no objection. Thoughts and curiosity are to be encouraged, but making things out to be more than they are deserves a reality check.
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Old June 2 2013, 06:13 PM   #50
Asbo Zaprudder
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post
This just came out of my head:

Perhaps dark matter is simply matter that has been sucked through a black hole and presses itself against the universe from the other side of the fabric of space. Thus it contributes to gravitational mass but does not interact with matter in any other way. Discuss!
I think dark matter must be a result of cosmic squirrels burying their nuts. You have to take me seriously -- it just sprang into my head. What do you mean that I offer no mathematics to offer an insight into existing observations or provide the basis of future experiments? You don't appear to understand I have a direct line to God.
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Old June 2 2013, 06:19 PM   #51
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

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Dark matter being a sentient omnipotent being and all.
To paraphrase someone smarter than myself:
And you don't see the problem with your statement?
I do, actually. That's the whole point.

In this context, comparing a bunch of particles that pretty much stand there doing nothing to something that's got a brain complex enough to more or less imagine and process the entire universe...
That would be to imply positive qualities to the thing you're searching for -- recognizable brain processes -- which makes the premise falsifiable (data suggests the absence of said processes).

"Dark matter" doesn't have this feature. It's a placeholder for some as yet undiscovered particle/substance/material that is defined less by what it is than by what it isn't.

On the scale of thing, particles are the second most trivial and meaningless after fundamental forces, while deities are more complex and momentous than anything there is.
I don't see how. The properties of both deities and elementary particles are a subject of intense debate by learned academics with advanced degrees and impressive credentials standing on the shoulders of intellectuals who have been having similar debates for decades-going-on-centuries. As far as I can tell, the only difference between God and the God Particle is one of those things is unlikely to exist.
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Old June 2 2013, 06:20 PM   #52
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

Pavonis wrote: View Post
I wonder if lawyers and physicians have similar "insightful contributions" from non-expert amateurs. Do people just wander into their offices and offer free advice on how to go about their work?
As a matter of fact, they do. It's actually a common complaint about doctors -- especially family doctors -- having to argue with the know-it-all parents of their patients. The debate often goes something like

Doc: "Your son's getting these headaches and throwing up because has a viral infection. He'll be contagious, so you'll need to keep him home from school and give him lots of rest."
Mom: "Oh, really? I looked up his symptoms on WebMD, it seems to me he's having some kind of allergic reaction. I'm thinking he has a gluten allergy."
Doc: "Based on what you've told me and the tests we've done, it's very unlikely this is an allergic reaction."
Mom: "You didn't test him for gluten allergies. How can you be so sure?"
Doc: "You're right, I only spent fifteen years in medical school and then another ten years practicing family medicine, so clearly your twelve and a half minutes reading WebMD makes YOU the expert on childhood pathologies."
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Old June 2 2013, 06:28 PM   #53
Asbo Zaprudder
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
I wonder if lawyers and physicians have similar "insightful contributions" from non-expert amateurs. Do people just wander into their offices and offer free advice on how to go about their work?
Why, yes. Yes they do.
The thing is that lawyers and physicians can probably get those people sanctioned and locked away under some mental-health legislation.
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Old June 2 2013, 06:32 PM   #54
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

Asbo Zaprudder wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Pavonis wrote: View Post
I wonder if lawyers and physicians have similar "insightful contributions" from non-expert amateurs. Do people just wander into their offices and offer free advice on how to go about their work?
Why, yes. Yes they do.
The thing is that lawyers and physicians can probably get those people sanctioned and locked away under some mental-health legislation.
They WISH.

There's nothing worse than helicopter moms. Every upper middle-class parent with an iPad thinks they're a paid pediatric consultant whose job it is to give their expert advice to their doctors/teachers/lawyers/councilmen/etc. Unfortunately such behavior is far from illegal.
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Old June 2 2013, 06:38 PM   #55
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

Pavonis wrote: View Post
I wonder if lawyers and physicians have similar "insightful contributions" from non-expert amateurs. Do people just wander into their offices and offer free advice on how to go about their work?
Happens to teachers as a matter of course.
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Old June 2 2013, 07:02 PM   #56
YellowSubmarine
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
I don't see how.
Note to self: Each time a neutrino passes me by, there's a miracle in the room and it defies God.
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Old June 2 2013, 09:10 PM   #57
publiusr
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

If only I could see one.
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Old June 3 2013, 04:21 AM   #58
Vulcan Logician
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Vulcan Logician wrote: View Post
Well sorry if I've wasted anyone's time by bringing juvenile ideas into this scholarly setting. Next time I have a half-baked hypothesis, I'll post it in the nether reaches of some science fiction show forum.
Honestly, as I already indicated, and to clarify, my biggest problem with this thread is that it was falsely advertised in the title as being about a scientific theory (calling it a "theory" in the Science and Technology forum suggests that).

If it had been properly identified as just a thought (it doesn't rise to the level of being a scientific hypothesis, either), I'd have had no objection. Thoughts and curiosity are to be encouraged, but making things out to be more than they are deserves a reality check.
I guess you are correct. In the realm of science, a theory is backed by at least some data. Sorry I wasted your time with my thought. Also, if you happen upon something that you feel is a waste of time on the web, most browsers are equipped with a "back" button. Use it! Again, sorry. Let's just leave it at that.
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Old June 3 2013, 04:25 AM   #59
Vulcan Logician
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

Thanks JarrodRussell. You're okay in my book.
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Old June 3 2013, 06:47 AM   #60
Crazy Eddie
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Re: Strange Dark Matter Theory

YellowSubmarine wrote: View Post
Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
I don't see how.
Note to self: Each time a neutrino passes me by, there's a miracle in the room and it defies God.
Or flip it around: every time God passes by you, the neutrino count in the room increases by 30%.

Theoretical physicists have become so enamored by the possibilities of dark matter that derivative theories about what it could be and what it could DO extend far beyond any logical connection to the data that suggests its existence, so much so that scientific institutions are beginning to make blanket factual statements with an extremely tenuous connection to what has actually been scientifically established, as if their confidence in the truth of the original assumption is sufficient to declare it as a fact. It is also something they have begun to do with, for example, supermassive holes, the existence of which were never ACTUALLY confirmed, despite astronomers' self-assurance that it had. Then, as now, an unbroken chain of "Based on this data, it's very possible there's a supermassive black hole there" evolved into "there's a black hole there" without alternate possibilities ever having been tested or ruled out. They took their favorite theory and ran with it simply because nobody managed to prove them wrong.

It is in that specific sense that cosmology and theology have begun to grow more and more similar: theories are assumed to be correct based less on corroborating data than on a lack of contradictory data.
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