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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old June 1 2013, 11:40 PM   #196
beamMe
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
I read so many (wrong) posts here criticising a lack of character development in the last two Star Trek movies, and now you three here tell me character growth doesn't matter?
I think, for our production at least, we are generally content to show the same amount and kinds of growth in the character that we saw them undergo back during the 80 hours of Trek in the 1960s. I'm not exactly sure how much of TOS's popularity was driven by character development. I think that Star Trek, like its sister show Mission: Impossible, was largely plot-driven. But I'm sure Kirk must have grown and developed substantially between "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Turnabout Intruder."

I think your suggestions, though, would make for a very interesting approach to Star Trek that many people would like to see. I know *I'd* watch it! I think just about everyone here would be encouraging of your efforts.
The passive-aggressive-ness of that last sentence really wasn't necessary.

I know that I neither have the resources nor the talent to do a tiny fraction of what you've accomplished.

You see my comments as an attack on fan productions; they aren't one.
It's just a direction I'd like you, who have proven your talent, to try and take; to make a Star Trek of your own; to be unburdened of all that canon.
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Old June 2 2013, 12:02 AM   #197
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

beamMe wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
I read so many (wrong) posts here criticising a lack of character development in the last two Star Trek movies, and now you three here tell me character growth doesn't matter?
I think, for our production at least, we are generally content to show the same amount and kinds of growth in the character that we saw them undergo back during the 80 hours of Trek in the 1960s. I'm not exactly sure how much of TOS's popularity was driven by character development. I think that Star Trek, like its sister show Mission: Impossible, was largely plot-driven. But I'm sure Kirk must have grown and developed substantially between "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Turnabout Intruder."

I think your suggestions, though, would make for a very interesting approach to Star Trek that many people would like to see. I know *I'd* watch it! I think just about everyone here would be encouraging of your efforts.
The passive-aggressive-ness of that last sentence really wasn't necessary.

I know that I neither have the resources nor the talent to do a tiny fraction of what you've accomplished.

You see my comments as an attack on fan productions; they aren't one.
It's just a direction I'd like you, who have proven your talent, to try and take; to make a Star Trek of your own; to be unburdened of all that canon.
I don't see your suggestions as an attack (although its flattering to think that we have so much traction that we would be attacked for something). I am taking your suggestions very seriously to heart! I think there are indeed elements of our fan base who are clamoring for a really different take on Star Trek. I just am not certain how to satisfy those people and still satisfy those who want nothing to do with a different take on Star Trek.

Another important point is that fan films exist purely through the generosity of CBS Consumer Products. We have tacit approval from them to make our silly little productions as long as we don't realize any revenue (not just bottom line revenue, but top line revenue), and as long as we continue to work within the confines of their old, "abandoned" artistic design and timeline. The minute we deviate from that and head off in some interesting new direction that we think the public wants to see, we become competition to them--using what is actually their own property. So the amount we are allowed to deviate from the old Star Trek look isn't just a matter of artistic preference; it's actually a condition imposed upon us by the actual property owners.

We can, of course, actually do whatever we want to do with whatever character arcs and growth we want to show in our characters. We just wouldn't be able to use the Trek characters or Trek elements or the Trek name. (I guess that would then be called a "film" instead of a "fan film.")
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Old June 2 2013, 12:23 AM   #198
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

i'm just glad that the people who make fan films do them because they think they've got an interesting or fun story to tell and the determination to make it happen in whatever form instead of thinking 'i cant do this because some random whiney guy on the internet might not like my idea or it doesn't stick exactly to canon/blah blah etc. i shouldn't bother'
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Old June 2 2013, 12:35 AM   #199
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

junxon wrote: View Post
i'm just glad that the people who make fan films do them because they think they've got an interesting or fun story to tell and the determination to make it happen in whatever form instead of thinking 'i cant do this because some random whiney guy on the internet might not like my idea or it doesn't stick exactly to canon/blah blah etc. i shouldn't bother'
Yes, I think it's best if they don't listen to the likes of me/us here.
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Old June 2 2013, 02:10 AM   #200
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

beamMe wrote: View Post
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The idea that fan films cannot be creative could only come from somebody with a very limited view of fan films. I invite you to come to Star Trek Reviewed and watch the following:
Steam Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/7.html
Stone Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/8.html
Star Trek Aurora: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/8.html
Turkish Star Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/28.html
Stalled Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/50.html

I have limited myself to what I call "Golden Age" films... but there are many more unique and creative efforts.
Get back to us when you have something that is not a comedy.
Star Trek Aurora is not a comedy. But I'm sure you'll find some reason to eliminate that, too.

In audio Trek, look at Star Trek Outpost. http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/247.html

In Silver Age Trek, many people think the forth episode of Encarta is what Voyager should have been. http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/86.html

Star Trekz Empire tells the story from the Klingon point of view: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/124.html

The fact that you had to eliminate comedies shows you acknowledge that some fan films are very creative and original. I'm sure you'll further acknowledge it by making up reasons to eliminate more of these.

Every time you say a fan film doesn't count you prove yourself wrong again.

Last edited by Barbreader; June 2 2013 at 02:28 AM.
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Old June 2 2013, 03:01 AM   #201
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

beamMe wrote: View Post
I read so many (wrong) posts here criticising a lack of character development in the last two Star Trek movies, and now you three here tell me character growth doesn't matter?
I have never criticized JJ Trek for lack of character growth, at least I don't think I have. Spock certainly has grown in them. Kirk too, though he still seems jerky to me. Its (guess what...) style is not to my taste. But I AM looking for good, humane, wonder-filled sci-fi, not character arcs. Movie-wise I am more of a TMP-TVH-INS guy, if that tells ya anything, though I love TWOK a lot too, for its great, human moments.

Your and others' mileage certainly varies. Cool.
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Old June 2 2013, 04:47 AM   #202
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

Watching this production I often felt that if the right lens or filter slid into place I'd swear this was an authentic episode from TOS' original run.

I've never had that feeling from any of the other fan productions. I can commend their efforts and admire their enthusiasm, but in the end there are often too many differences that distract me from getting swept up in it. It's much like feeling an author hasn't been effective at getting and holding your attention sufficiently for you to really care about his or her story.

This really did it for me.
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Old June 2 2013, 06:32 AM   #203
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

It's a great fan film. But it's a fan film, no mistaking that. It's not broadcast qualiity, even for 1969. It's a fine simulacrum, but it's not the real thing.
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Old June 2 2013, 07:38 AM   #204
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

beamMe wrote: View Post
Barbreader wrote: View Post
The idea that fan films cannot be creative could only come from somebody with a very limited view of fan films. I invite you to come to Star Trek Reviewed and watch the following:
Steam Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/7.html
Stone Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/8.html
Star Trek Aurora: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/8.html
Turkish Star Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/28.html
Stalled Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/50.html

I have limited myself to what I call "Golden Age" films... but there are many more unique and creative efforts.
Get back to us when you have something that is not a comedy.
Star Trek Aurora isn't a comedy.
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Old June 2 2013, 11:01 AM   #205
beamMe
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

Barbreader wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
Barbreader wrote: View Post
The idea that fan films cannot be creative could only come from somebody with a very limited view of fan films. I invite you to come to Star Trek Reviewed and watch the following:
Steam Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/7.html
Stone Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/8.html
Star Trek Aurora: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/8.html
Turkish Star Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/28.html
Stalled Trek: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/50.html

I have limited myself to what I call "Golden Age" films... but there are many more unique and creative efforts.
Get back to us when you have something that is not a comedy.
Star Trek Aurora is not a comedy. But I'm sure you'll find some reason to eliminate that, too.

In audio Trek, look at Star Trek Outpost. http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/247.html

In Silver Age Trek, many people think the forth episode of Encarta is what Voyager should have been. http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/86.html

Star Trekz Empire tells the story from the Klingon point of view: http://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/124.html

The fact that you had to eliminate comedies shows you acknowledge that some fan films are very creative and original. I'm sure you'll further acknowledge it by making up reasons to eliminate more of these.

Every time you say a fan film doesn't count you prove yourself wrong again.
Is that the same logic as "when a woman says no, she really means yes"?

I know Aurora isn't a comedy (your link leads elsewhere, btw).

These comedies and parodies may be good, but when I think of Star Trek, I don't think of comedy. Humour and fun, yes.

If a Star Trek comedy/parody is what you try and sell as creative, then I'd much rather stick to Phase II and Continues and Exeter and all the other fan productions that try to tell good stories within the confines of the setting of TOS - and usually they are doing a great job.

You probably see it as one, but this isn't an attack on these comedies. I enjoy them. But they aren't a what I would like the fan productions try and do if they were allowed a free rein by CBS.

And, but that's probably just me, I like to see Kirk and co. in these stories not some other characters. I enjoyed TNG, DS9 (which I think is the best of the 24th century shows), VOY and ENT, but I'm done with them.

Phase II and Continues give me a lot of what I like; they make my fan-heart pretty happy - despite my whining in this thread.
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Old June 2 2013, 12:02 PM   #206
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

Maurice wrote: View Post
It's a great fan film. But it's a fan film, no mistaking that. It's not broadcast qualiity, even for 1969. It's a fine simulacrum, but it's not the real thing.
But Spock's Brain was broadcast quality as well.
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Old June 2 2013, 12:16 PM   #207
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
It's a great fan film. But it's a fan film, no mistaking that. It's not broadcast qualiity, even for 1969. It's a fine simulacrum, but it's not the real thing.
But Spock's Brain was broadcast quality as well.
You are touching on the exact point I've been posing in another thread (so as not to derail this one).
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Old June 2 2013, 04:57 PM   #208
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

Someone way upstream wrote about cringe-worthy moments in fan films. I was watching Adonais, and that has a couple cringe-y moments, mostly involving Scotty. Few real eps don't have at least one. How about Spock leering at Mudd's women; or saying to nearly-raped Janice Rand that id-Kirk had some interesting qualities and smirking? Just the two that come first to mind.
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Old June 2 2013, 05:42 PM   #209
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

plynch wrote: View Post
Someone way upstream wrote about cringe-worthy moments in fan films. I was watching Adonais, and that has a couple cringe-y moments, mostly involving Scotty. Few real eps don't have at least one. How about Spock leering at Mudd's women; or saying to nearly-raped Janice Rand that id-Kirk had some interesting qualities and smirking? Just the two that come first to mind.
Very true. As much as I love TOS once in awhile there are moments that have made me go, "Uh...yeah."
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Last edited by Warped9; June 2 2013 at 09:18 PM.
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Old June 2 2013, 09:13 PM   #210
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

We reach, brother.
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