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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 1 2013, 06:05 PM   #91
Belz...
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Re: Q

Tosk wrote: View Post
You posited that the engineering hull can be referred to as a nacelle. The line in ST12 is "behind the aft nacelle" My point was that if the engineering/secondary hull were the nacelle in question, then behind it would be in space.
Ah. Sorry, then.

Well there's no completely satisfactory way to explain that line, anyway. We're just doing what fans do best, after all.
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Old June 1 2013, 06:11 PM   #92
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

The whole point is that Khan is supposed to be a super-genius, Wily Coyote-style. If he's so smart, why would he say something as stupid as "behind the aft nacelle"? Why doesn't Spock react to his blunder? And, for that matter, if he knew where the life support system was, why didn't he destroy it with his opening salvo?

Answer: Because the film makers don't care about any of that.
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Old June 1 2013, 06:31 PM   #93
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

CaptainDave1701 wrote: View Post

Historically speaking and back in the old days (you know the 60's and 70's) the star ship nomenclature always referred to the main sections of the Enterprise as being Primary and Secondary Hull.
Referred to as such in episode dialogue, or in material not presented on-screen?
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Old June 1 2013, 06:42 PM   #94
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

boobatuba wrote: View Post
The whole point is that Khan is supposed to be a super-genius, Wily Coyote-style. If he's so smart, why would he say something as stupid as "behind the aft nacelle"? Why doesn't Spock react to his blunder? And, for that matter, if he knew where the life support system was, why didn't he destroy it with his opening salvo?

Answer: Because the film makers don't care about any of that.
In-universe possible answer: Khan doesn't care about Federation terminology.
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Old June 1 2013, 07:03 PM   #95
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

boobatuba wrote: View Post
The whole point is that Khan is supposed to be a super-genius, Wily Coyote-style. If he's so smart, why would he say something as stupid as "behind the aft nacelle"? Why doesn't Spock react to his blunder? And, for that matter, if he knew where the life support system was, why didn't he destroy it with his opening salvo?

Answer: Because the film makers don't care about any of that.

What opening salvo? Khan fired on the Enterprise only after he got his people back.

He clearly wanted to avoid shooting at her for fear of putting his crew at risk when targeting the life support system.
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Old June 1 2013, 09:09 PM   #96
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

Belz... wrote: View Post
No, it's not. It's only silly if you cling to the "secondary hull" thing.




I took this pic from "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise". I don't care if you disagree with me, but surely you're not suggesting we ignore the terminology of the Miracle Worker ?!?

(also: note what they call the "pylon" between the two hulls)

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Old June 1 2013, 09:43 PM   #97
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

I don't know why; because im bored i guess...


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Old June 1 2013, 10:12 PM   #98
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

draderman wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
No, it's not. It's only silly if you cling to the "secondary hull" thing.

I took this pic from "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise". I don't care if you disagree with me, but surely you're not suggesting we ignore the terminology of the Miracle Worker ?!?
I'll assume you're joking, here.

I don't know why; because im bored i guess...
Beautiful. I'll call Paramount.
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Old June 1 2013, 10:25 PM   #99
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

Belz... wrote: View Post
I'll assume you're joking, here.
Assumption correct.

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Referred to as such in episode dialogue, or in material not presented on-screen?
After spending 10 minutes utilizing my web browsers find function on Chrissie's transcript site (http://www.chakoteya.net/), I can confirm that the term "Secondary Hull" is not spoken on-screen in any of the original, animated or first 6 TOS movies
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Old June 1 2013, 10:42 PM   #100
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

draderman wrote: View Post

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Referred to as such in episode dialogue, or in material not presented on-screen?
After spending 10 minutes utilizing my web browsers find function on Chrissie's transcript site (http://www.chakoteya.net/), I can confirm that the term "Secondary Hull" is not spoken on-screen in any of the original, animated or first 6 TOS movies
Yeah, that's the same result I was coming up with. "Secondary hull" appears in dialogue once in TNG, but doesn't seem to have become a regular part of the jargon until Voyager, where it turns up quite a few times. I think that portion of the ship was mostly referred to as the "Engineering section" in TOS (also in several TNG eps.)

Speaking of Chrissie's/Chakoteya's site for a moment: has anyone had trouble accessing that site lately - say, over the last three months or so? Other than the odd temporary downtime, I've been using the site for years without issue, but since February or early March, my browser has crashed immediately every time I click on a link or bookmark to go there. Kinda frustrating, as it's been a very useful resource.
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Old June 1 2013, 10:54 PM   #101
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Yeah, that's the same result I was coming up with. "Secondary hull" appears in dialogue once in TNG
Allow me to test my memory of Trek, here: Yesterday's Enterprise ?
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Old June 1 2013, 11:04 PM   #102
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

Belz... wrote: View Post
boobatuba wrote: View Post
The whole point is that Khan is supposed to be a super-genius, Wily Coyote-style. If he's so smart, why would he say something as stupid as "behind the aft nacelle"? Why doesn't Spock react to his blunder? And, for that matter, if he knew where the life support system was, why didn't he destroy it with his opening salvo?

Answer: Because the film makers don't care about any of that.
In-universe possible answer: Khan doesn't care about Federation terminology.
Yeah. The guy who could tell Scotty exactly what access port to open. Sure.
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Old June 1 2013, 11:12 PM   #103
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
"Secondary hull" appears in dialogue once in TNG, but doesn't seem to have become a regular part of the jargon until Voyager, where it turns up quite a few times. I think that portion of the ship was mostly referred to as the "Engineering section" in TOS (also in several TNG eps.)
There's also "The Apple", where Kirk tells Scotty "Discard the warp drive nacelles if you have to, and crack out of there with the main section, but get that ship out of there!"

It's unclear whether he means a saucer separation (which would imply the engineering hull was the secondary section), or literally jettisoning just the nacelles (leaving saucer + engineering hull as the "main section"). The former fits better with later Trek (have we ever seen just the nacelles jettisoned?) and seems to be the general fan assumption, however.
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Old June 1 2013, 11:35 PM   #104
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

Belz... wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Yeah, that's the same result I was coming up with. "Secondary hull" appears in dialogue once in TNG
Allow me to test my memory of Trek, here: Yesterday's Enterprise ?
I did find a couple of other instances in TNG after I posted, but "Yesterday's Enterprise" is the one I had in mind.

ATimson wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
"Secondary hull" appears in dialogue once in TNG, but doesn't seem to have become a regular part of the jargon until Voyager, where it turns up quite a few times. I think that portion of the ship was mostly referred to as the "Engineering section" in TOS (also in several TNG eps.)
There's also "The Apple", where Kirk tells Scotty "Discard the warp drive nacelles if you have to, and crack out of there with the main section, but get that ship out of there!"

It's unclear whether he means a saucer separation (which would imply the engineering hull was the secondary section), or literally jettisoning just the nacelles (leaving saucer + engineering hull as the "main section"). The former fits better with later Trek (have we ever seen just the nacelles jettisoned?) and seems to be the general fan assumption, however.
I don't think we have, but I could be mistaken about that.
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Old June 2 2013, 01:20 AM   #105
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Re: AFT NACELLE (Spoilers)

boobatuba wrote: View Post
Yeah. The guy who could tell Scotty exactly what access port to open. Sure.
What the hell does this have to do with Federation terminology ?
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