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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old June 1 2013, 06:09 AM   #166
Maurice
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

Warped9 wrote: View Post
On another note the Enterprise is freakin' gorgeous here. This is what TOS-R should have looked like.
Really? I thought it was very uneven. In some shots the virtual lens choice made the thing look like a 3 foot model.
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Old June 1 2013, 06:51 AM   #167
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

Loved it
Made me cry
Very poignant story
Michael Forrest was quite excellent and that last scene where they de aged him was wonderful

Not a fan of the actor playing MCcoy at all
Lukewarm on haberkorn
Vic was fantastic
Chris was scary good as his pappy
Hot broad redhead niiiiize
Ship looked infinitely better than tos remastered nice work Drex
And Jamie fucking Bamber

What else could you ask for
Watch this on a big screen if you can stream YouTube

To my mind the best yet fan production and if they could tweak a couple things would make an excellent syfy series
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Old June 1 2013, 07:08 AM   #168
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

If there's one complaint I can make about it, was that they overused the original sound track a little too much. They did indeed "hit the nail on the head" with it most of the time, but in many spots they could have either toned down the volume or used less agitating musical interludes. Again, for a first full run episode it's stupendous. Yet I do hope they make an effort to read the fan chatter and take criticisms to heart. It will only help to make successive episodes even better!
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Old June 1 2013, 07:51 AM   #169
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

Warped9 wrote: View Post
The "risk is our business" speech is actually from "Return To Tomorrow."

I just watched this for the third time within the past few days. Yeah, it has little things that seem a tad out of place, but overall it really rocks. It has a real authentic vibe to it.

On another note the Enterprise is freakin' gorgeous here. This is what TOS-R should have looked like.

Amazing how a collection of dedicated fans could put the million dollar resources of CBS to shame.
Doh - my bad - that said, the "Return to Tomorrow" conference basically did have the rest of the senior officers effectively saying, "it's not worth it" - and Kirk made the decision to make contact over all the objections, (and gave a great speech ) - so the point still stands even if the basis of my response to the other poster was in error.
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Old June 1 2013, 12:19 PM   #170
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

A counsellor in TOS doesn't really work in terms of Kirk's character because Spock and McCoy have always been his sounding boards and neither of them afraid to tell Kirk what he needed to hear.

If they really wanted to go this route I think something like a Contact Officer would make more sense. Someone trained in alien psychologies and contact protocols. They could still go that route with McKenna under the name of Counsellor.

I understand what they're trying to do in universe, but I can see it being a challenge dramatically because the new character is treading into an area already occupied by Spock and McCoy.
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Old June 1 2013, 12:24 PM   #171
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Re: TOS continues...

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Now I know why the uniforms look totally out of place in Star Trek 2009. It's because the color schemes don't fit. They took one single element from the original series while ignoring that it has to be seen in its entirety.
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Old June 1 2013, 03:31 PM   #172
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

Warped9 wrote: View Post
A counsellor in TOS doesn't really work in terms of Kirk's character because Spock and McCoy have always been his sounding boards and neither of them afraid to tell Kirk what he needed to hear.

If they really wanted to go this route I think something like a Contact Officer would make more sense. Someone trained in alien psychologies and contact protocols. They could still go that route with McKenna under the name of Counsellor.

I understand what they're trying to do in universe, but I can see it being a challenge dramatically because the new character is treading into an area already occupied by Spock and McCoy.
Troi worked better in season one in my view when she was used more in that regard. Her problem was that she wasn't allowed to take a lead, she could only advise Picard and then he made a decision that was only barely based on it. Originally, I thought she was Councillor Troi - i.e. an ambassador rather than an officer.
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Old June 1 2013, 06:46 PM   #173
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Re: TOS continues...

beamMe wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post

No, these fan productions always lack creative freedom. They all limit themselves and will never be anything more than examples in nostalgia.
Wrong. Just because so far they've opted not to go beyond what they've been doing doesn't mean they can't. Yes, they might limit themselves, but the opportunity is still there. One day we might get something different. Unlike a licenced novel there is no censor telling them they can't do a particular kind of story.
A good story is one thing.
But presenting it in the guise of the design aesthetic of TOS is already stifling any creative freedom.
Agreed. From a creative stand point, the TOS fan films are limited to what's already been established with these characters. Unless they do a reboot like JJ-TOS, then we know that the 5 year mission will end. Kirk will get promoted, Spock will go back to Vulcan for Kolinhar, the Enterprise will be refit and Scotty will over see it, and McCoy will leave Starfleet and Kirk won't be captain again until TMP.

But on an edited note, I am grateful for the efforts everyone in the fan film genre have put out there. I think we do tend to take them for granted for those of us who watch them.

I can't wait for the entire episode of Phase II's Kitumba. It looks like an exciting romp.
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Last edited by Shane Houston; June 1 2013 at 07:05 PM. Reason: Edit to add
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Old June 1 2013, 07:06 PM   #174
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Re: TOS continues...

Halliwell wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Wrong. Just because so far they've opted not to go beyond what they've been doing doesn't mean they can't. Yes, they might limit themselves, but the opportunity is still there. One day we might get something different. Unlike a licenced novel there is no censor telling them they can't do a particular kind of story.
A good story is one thing.
But presenting it in the guise of the design aesthetic of TOS is already stifling any creative freedom.
Agreed. From a creative stand point, the TOS fan films are limited to what's already been established with these characters. Unless they do a reboot like JJ-TOS, then we know that the 5 year mission will end. Kirk will get promoted, Spock will go back to Vulcan for Kolinhar, the Enterprise will be refit and Scotty will over see it, and McCoy will leave Starfleet and Kirk won't be captain again until TMP.

And
Your limitation hasn't been defined. If they approach this as if nothing has happened yet after TOS then they can do whatever they want. They have already made a change to the TOS setting by introducing a TNG era element, a ship's counsellor. There is a lot they can do whether they choose to ignore what comes later or adhere to what was shown in TMP. And even the latter allows them creative freedom as long as they get back to where they will be in TMP.

The only limitations apparent are the assumptions one might make.
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Old June 1 2013, 07:09 PM   #175
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Re: TOS continues...

Halliwell wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Wrong. Just because so far they've opted not to go beyond what they've been doing doesn't mean they can't. Yes, they might limit themselves, but the opportunity is still there. One day we might get something different. Unlike a licenced novel there is no censor telling them they can't do a particular kind of story.
A good story is one thing.
But presenting it in the guise of the design aesthetic of TOS is already stifling any creative freedom.
Agreed. From a creative stand point, the TOS fan films are limited to what's already been established with these characters. Unless they do a reboot like JJ-TOS, then we know that the 5 year mission will end. Kirk will get promoted, Spock will go back to Vulcan for Kolinhar, the Enterprise will be refit and Scotty will over see it, and McCoy will leave Starfleet and Kirk won't be captain again until TMP.
And similarly, of course, no one can really do a compelling or interesting movie about Lincoln, because we already know how that whole thing works out.
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Old June 1 2013, 07:32 PM   #176
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Re: TOS continues...

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
A counsellor in TOS doesn't really work in terms of Kirk's character because Spock and McCoy have always been his sounding boards and neither of them afraid to tell Kirk what he needed to hear.

If they really wanted to go this route I think something like a Contact Officer would make more sense. Someone trained in alien psychologies and contact protocols. They could still go that route with McKenna under the name of Counsellor.

I understand what they're trying to do in universe, but I can see it being a challenge dramatically because the new character is treading into an area already occupied by Spock and McCoy.
Troi worked better in season one in my view when she was used more in that regard. Her problem was that she wasn't allowed to take a lead, she could only advise Picard and then he made a decision that was only barely based on it. Originally, I thought she was Councillor Troi - i.e. an ambassador rather than an officer.
Marina Sirtis gave a VNR interview regarding Troi right before the show premiered, stating that her character was the "Spock" of TNG — the brains. She was supposed to be a cool intellectual. The mistake I felt TNG made was not making Troi a first-contact specialist, someone whose job is to advise the captain on how best to make contact with alien species who might not think the way we do. Sorta like Tam Elbrum in "Tin Man."


Halliwell wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Wrong. Just because so far they've opted not to go beyond what they've been doing doesn't mean they can't. Yes, they might limit themselves, but the opportunity is still there. One day we might get something different. Unlike a licenced novel there is no censor telling them they can't do a particular kind of story.
A good story is one thing.
But presenting it in the guise of the design aesthetic of TOS is already stifling any creative freedom.
Agreed. From a creative stand point, the TOS fan films are limited to what's already been established with these characters. Unless they do a reboot like JJ-TOS, then we know that the 5 year mission will end. Kirk will get promoted, Spock will go back to Vulcan for Kolinhar, the Enterprise will be refit and Scotty will over see it, and McCoy will leave Starfleet and Kirk won't be captain again until TMP.

But on an edited note, I am grateful for the efforts everyone in the fan film genre have put out there. I think we do tend to take them for granted for those of us who watch them.

I can't wait for the entire episode of Phase II's Kitumba. It looks like an exciting romp.
TOS fan films choose limit themselves to those "established" aspects of the characters. They aren't limited, they could easily make their own path. They don't have to connect the dots or assume that the events in the films or "canon" have to happen.

I was quite disappointed that NEW VOYAGES/PII didn't really live up to the fourth season had it been continued. Their pilot had a wonderful line about the future that Kirk and Spock encounter through the Q-by-any-other-name creature as being a "possible one." It gave them a door to do whatever they wanted to really explore what a fourth season might've been had their been no movies, no TNG, no noose of canon.

"To Serve All My Days" was another opportunity to do that. But they did the 1969 version negating the story with it was a dream (even if it was a joke). Then had Chekov back in the next episode.

It's the same here with CONTINUES, as Warped9 points out. They have the opportunity to really forge their own path with these characters, a great "what if?" like in comics, telling stories without the shackles of "canon." I hope they move away from the fanwank of connecting the dots and focus on solid stories.

And I still have that hope for PHASE II as well.
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Old June 1 2013, 07:50 PM   #177
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Re: TOS continues...

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Halliwell wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post

A good story is one thing.
But presenting it in the guise of the design aesthetic of TOS is already stifling any creative freedom.
Agreed. From a creative stand point, the TOS fan films are limited to what's already been established with these characters. Unless they do a reboot like JJ-TOS, then we know that the 5 year mission will end. Kirk will get promoted, Spock will go back to Vulcan for Kolinhar, the Enterprise will be refit and Scotty will over see it, and McCoy will leave Starfleet and Kirk won't be captain again until TMP.
And similarly, of course, no one can really do a compelling or interesting movie about Lincoln, because we already know how that whole thing works out.
You are not seriously comparing Kirk and co. to Abraham Lincoln?

Bringing life again to a real historical figure through the medium film is something else entirely from telling stories about fictional characters.
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Old June 1 2013, 08:00 PM   #178
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Re: TOS continues...

middyseafort wrote: View Post

"To Serve All My Days" was another opportunity to do that. But they did the 1969 version negating the story with it was a dream (even if it was a joke). Then had Chekov back in the next episode.
Well, to be fair, Chekov appeared in the follow-up episode to "To Serve All My Days" long before we even created or released the "A Night in 1969" version. So his reappearance was never really contingent on the silly "Dallas" ending we jokingly tacked on.

A reminder: the number of our viewers who want us to chart our own path, rather than be faithfully devoted to what we "know" awaits the Trek universe is actually a really small minority. So we actually are trying to please multiple constituencies.
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Old June 1 2013, 08:06 PM   #179
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Re: TOS continues...

GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
Halliwell wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post

A good story is one thing.
But presenting it in the guise of the design aesthetic of TOS is already stifling any creative freedom.
Agreed. From a creative stand point, the TOS fan films are limited to what's already been established with these characters. Unless they do a reboot like JJ-TOS, then we know that the 5 year mission will end. Kirk will get promoted, Spock will go back to Vulcan for Kolinhar, the Enterprise will be refit and Scotty will over see it, and McCoy will leave Starfleet and Kirk won't be captain again until TMP.
And similarly, of course, no one can really do a compelling or interesting movie about Lincoln, because we already know how that whole thing works out.
I know what you're saying, but this example proves my point. Of course you can do compelling and entertaining stories about Lincoln, to a point. You can write about his experiences of what we know before he was elected or after, but it wouldn't be a story about Lincoln if a writer decides to write a story where he was a Senator instead of a President or married to Michelle Obama instead of Mary Todd Lincoln. Writing outside of the parameters of what's been established about Lincoln makes it not a story based on Lincoln but a parody.

Here's what I'm trying to get at. What if I, as a writer wrote a fan-production tale set in the TOS era of Trek that would include the destruction of the Enterprise or killing off a main character? We know a series like Phase II couldn't use it because it's goal is to stay as faithful to what's been established in TOS. And if you did use it it would be an alternate reality story like JJ-Trek.

That's why I'm glad Phase II is moving into the unknown era, or lost era, of Star Trek because the ability to add more to the narrative is there. It's really what a season 5 of Star Trek would look like and would fit seamlessly into the movie era.
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Old June 1 2013, 08:11 PM   #180
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Re: TOS continues...

beamMe wrote: View Post
GSchnitzer wrote: View Post
And similarly, of course, no one can really do a compelling or interesting movie about Lincoln, because we already know how that whole thing works out.
You are not seriously comparing Kirk and co. to Abraham Lincoln?

Bringing life again to a real historical figure through the medium film is something else entirely from telling stories about fictional characters.
No, it's an apt comparison. Lincoln's life is documented (largely) although there will always be questions because not every moment of his life is documented. Events in his life can be (and are) dramatized with a measure of creative leeway to make his story and the events compelling. We know the outcome, but we can still chart the events in a compelling way.

In Star Trek it's all fiction. All that is set in stone is what has happened to the characters in TOS' three seasons in so much as they're approaching this as if they are indeed doing the unseen fourth season. They are not constrained by having to acknowledge what was seen in TMP or in any film or series afterward.

Yet even if they do acknowledge the events of TMP and a nod towards TNG they can still do a great many things as long as it's not inconsistent with where they end up in TMP (and as long as it's rationalized in a credible way).

Any of the characters could get married or promoted or whatever as long as they're back the way we see them by the time of TMP.

Or put it another way. Kirk was the hero of the series. It wasn't going to happen that they would kill him off or any of the other series regulars for that matter. That certainly didn't preclude them from telling compelling stories.

Therefore I reiterate that the only creative limitations are self imposed ones rather than in fact.


I sense that what's really being asked here is whether one could apply a Game Of Thrones style of storytelling to TOS. In that regard I would say "no" because that would definitely be straying too far from the kind of storytelling done on TOS and all other television of that era. If the STC producers are limiting themselves in that way then I think they're right in doing so.
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