RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,555
Posts: 5,513,782
Members: 25,146
Currently online: 615
Newest member: TM2-Megatron

TrekToday headlines

Two New Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Dec 26

Captain Kirk’s Boldest Missions
By: T'Bonz on Dec 25

Trek Paper Clips
By: T'Bonz on Dec 24

Sargent Passes
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

QMx Trek Insignia Badges
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

And The New Director Of Star Trek 3 Is…
By: T'Bonz on Dec 23

TV Alert: Pine On Tonight Show
By: T'Bonz on Dec 22

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 31 2013, 09:52 PM   #271
Squiggy Claus
Rampant Sexist
 
Squiggy Claus's Avatar
 
Location: Up Squiggy's Coal Chute.
View Squiggy Claus's Twitter Profile Send a message via ICQ to Squiggy Claus
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Clearly, these errors in STVI mean the franchise has failed and Star Trek is ruined.
__________________
ENOUGH OF THIS TURGID BASH WANKERY!
Squiggy Claus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2013, 09:53 PM   #272
SantaEddie74
Fleet Admiral
 
SantaEddie74's Avatar
 
Location: The North Pole of the Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
View SantaEddie74's Twitter Profile
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

I blame Laurence Luckinbill and his laugh.
__________________
Remember what cooleddie74 says, kids:

"Don't forget to have a Patrick Swayze Christmas!"
SantaEddie74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2013, 10:29 PM   #273
Tribble puncher
Commander
 
Tribble puncher's Avatar
 
Location: Lexington, KY
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
I liked this movie so much I really don't care whether they're consistent with much of the previous timeline or visual continuity at all. Let these guys do what they want as long as they stay entertaining.
After reading that I imagined that scene in First Contact where Captain Picard screams: NO! NOOOOOO! and smashes the model ships in the conference room....
Tribble puncher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2013, 10:39 PM   #274
SantaEddie74
Fleet Admiral
 
SantaEddie74's Avatar
 
Location: The North Pole of the Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
View SantaEddie74's Twitter Profile
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

[Trek super nerd] Archer's Enterprise from the prequel show has never been in the model displays on Picard's ships! Canon Violation! [/super nerd]

__________________
Remember what cooleddie74 says, kids:

"Don't forget to have a Patrick Swayze Christmas!"
SantaEddie74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2013, 10:41 PM   #275
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?



Ugh.

I love that I'm a nerd, but I hate that there are nerds.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2013, 12:07 AM   #276
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Distant Thunder
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The actor playing him was European. So he must be European.
No. Or is this one of those outdated practices from the 1960s that we like, as opposed to the ones we don't like?

Using "classical" racial classifications
And why exactly would we be using discredited classifications?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
That's why nuKhan is European, right?
Actually, he only looks European because Section 31 made him look that way for some inscrutable purpose.

One of these things is not like the others.
__________________
Do you know what this is? What this means?

Last edited by Set Harth; June 1 2013 at 12:28 AM.
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2013, 12:26 AM   #277
The Old Building & Loan
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Building & Loan's Avatar
 
Location: Bedford Falls...or is that Pottersville...?
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I find it's a lot less complicated to accept that the "Uhura don't know Klingon" gag was one of the dumber things ever concocted in the history of Trek and simply forget it ever happened. Actually, that works nicely for most of TUC.
Damn straight.
Nice to see that I'm not the only one who doesn't put TUC on a pedestal.
The Old Building & Loan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2013, 01:40 AM   #278
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The actor playing him was European. So he must be European.
No. Or is this one of those outdated practices from the 1960s that we like, as opposed to the ones we don't like?

Using "classical" racial classifications
And why exactly would we be using discredited classifications?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
That's why nuKhan is European, right?
Actually, he only looks European because Section 31 made him look that way for some inscrutable purpose.

One of these things is not like the others.
Truth be told, I would have preferred that an Indian actor played Khan, if that character was going to be used. My main objection to your original comment was the use of the term "Caucasian" to describe Khan's race ( and term race in general), when it applies equally to Montalban, Cumberbatch and any hypothetical Indian actor. Then I watched as goalposts were moved and words were defined. The point that Cumberbatch isn't an Indian could have been stated without using either term, as I just did.

Yes, the writers used a dose of Handwavium to make Khan look like Cumberbatch. Cumberbatch is a great actor, so it might be a good trade off.


Though I do find the nebulous standards of "spot on casting" to be curious. "Europeans" and "Africans" tend to be one size fits all, but others require an exact match.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6 2013, 08:31 PM   #279
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Distant Thunder
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
My main objection to your original comment was the use of the term "Caucasian" to describe Khan's race
But I didn't use any such term in my original comment. You objected to the mere suggestion that Khan's race was changed, pressing for the relevance of an "outdated" ( and discredited ) classification.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The point that Cumberbatch isn't an Indian could have been stated
I did. I just didn't know that using the word "race" somehow negated that point. And how could you possibly know just by looking at him that Cumberbatch isn't an Indian, if the term Indian connotes nothing more than a nationality?
__________________
Do you know what this is? What this means?
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6 2013, 10:24 PM   #280
The Mighty Monkey of Mim
Captain
 
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Firstly, as Khan is a product of genetic engineering, he needn't belong to any one particular naturally-occurring race (or even combination thereof) at all. McGivers was only "guessing" (her own words in the episode) at his origins in "Space Seed." And moreover, Montalban was neither Indian nor Sikh, illustrating readily that the race of the actor playing a role needn't be taken as a direct indication of the race of the character himself. (John Cho and Linda Park aren't Japanese, either.)

Secondly, we could easily regard any discrepancy among Khan's appearances in TOS, TWOK, and the new film as being no more significant than that of any other character who's been played by more than one actor, including Saavik, T'Pau, Braxton, Pike, and many others. In other words, not significant at all, because it's not an "in-universe" difference, merely an effect of recasting the role, an aesthetic choice on the part of the people behind the camera, which we of course notice on our end, but which will not be acknowledged by the characters and which we are intended to look past.
__________________
Watch out, or I'll get you with my Andorian ice powers.

Last edited by The Mighty Monkey of Mim; June 6 2013 at 10:39 PM.
The Mighty Monkey of Mim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 6 2013, 11:55 PM   #281
SantaEddie74
Fleet Admiral
 
SantaEddie74's Avatar
 
Location: The North Pole of the Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
View SantaEddie74's Twitter Profile
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

And, like I've said, if that reasoning doesn't work for somebody, one can always say that Admiral Marcus and Section 31 forced Khan to undergo cosmetic surgery to change his appearance - just in case some nosey know-it-all who's familiar with old Earth history would happen to recognize Khan Noonien Singh of the Eugenics Wars running around in modern times and start to pry and ask questions that nobody wanted to answer.

Either way, there's a reasonable explanation.
__________________
Remember what cooleddie74 says, kids:

"Don't forget to have a Patrick Swayze Christmas!"
SantaEddie74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2013, 12:08 AM   #282
marksound
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Planet Carcazed
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Just because Harrison said he was Khan, that don't necessarily make it so.

Did Old Spock see him? Anyone else who would have recognized him? Was there enough time in the thick of things for anyone to look up his file?

I haven't seen the movie yet. Just asking.
marksound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2013, 12:54 AM   #283
Hober Mallow
Commodore
 
Location: The planet Terminus, site of the Encyclopedia Foundation on the periphery of the galaxy
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Although I didn't personally care for the movie, I did like Cumberbatch as Khan.
__________________
"Beep... beep!" --Captain Pike
Hober Mallow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2013, 03:07 AM   #284
Set Harth
Rear Admiral
 
Set Harth's Avatar
 
Location: Distant Thunder
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

The Mighty Monkey of Mim wrote: View Post
(John Cho and Linda Park aren't Japanese, either.)
The Sulu question was already addressed here; "Sulu" isn't a Japanese name and was taken from the Sulu Sea in a bid to give the character a Pan-Asian flavor.

Furthermore, we know Takei gave his personal blessing to the recasting after being approached by Abrams. In other words, changing the ethnicity of the actor wasn't taken lightly by the creative team. But that was then. This time around, things seem to have been a little more loosey-goosey.
__________________
Do you know what this is? What this means?
Set Harth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 7 2013, 05:48 AM   #285
Santa Kang
Fleet Admiral
 
Santa Kang's Avatar
 
Location: North Pole,Qo'noS
Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
My main objection to your original comment was the use of the term "Caucasian" to describe Khan's race
But I didn't use any such term in my original comment. You objected to the mere suggestion that Khan's race was changed, pressing for the relevance of an "outdated" ( and discredited ) classification.
You claimed Cumberbatch wasn't the same race as Khan. Which would be wrong. You then claimed "Indian" was a race. Also wrong. Then you tried to differentiate Caucasian and Caucasoid. There is no difference. What you did get right was some people use Caucasian as a synonym for White European ( usually from the Northwest). India is a country with many ethnic groups, languages and religions.(Including Indians of British descent) Khan could be a combination of those or just one. Or not from India at all.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The point that Cumberbatch isn't an Indian could have been stated
I did. I just didn't know that using the word "race" somehow negated that point. And how could you possibly know just by looking at him that Cumberbatch isn't an Indian, if the term Indian connotes nothing more than a nationality?
Because its incorrect. You're the one claiming Cumberbatch isn't of the Indian "race". I can't tell Cumberbatch's nationality by looking at him, because nationality isn't based on appearance. Since I know something about his backgroud, I know he's not an Indian national. Of course John/Khan isn't Benedict Cumberbatch, so Cumberbatch's nationality isn't relevant.

Am I being pedantic and semantic about the terms "race" and
"Caucasian"? Maybe just a little.
__________________
Nerys Myk
Santa Kang is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:11 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.