RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,616
Posts: 5,426,174
Members: 24,810
Currently online: 398
Newest member: 8 of 9

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing December Trek Comics
By: T'Bonz on Sep 17

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 31 2013, 06:17 PM   #16
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

It's possible that there is both a Earth Starfleet, and a federation Starfleet, entirely separate from each other. That's assuming that federation members retain a defense fleet, something like the Vulcan defense fleet mention in Reunification.

Several members might have a "starfleet," starfleet being a generic term for a fleet of warp driven armed ships. Other members also have their own "home fleets" but don't use the term starfleet.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2013, 08:44 PM   #17
Crazyewok
Commander
 
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

I think there is 1 starfleet that contributed by all countries and speices.


But I think there are lots of little orginisations both military and Civilian in nature. though Im guessing the military ones all anwser to starfleet at the end of the day.
Crazyewok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 31 2013, 11:34 PM   #18
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

UESPA was probably supposed to be a future version of NASA. Then they changed their minds and went with Starfleet. UESPA and "Earth ship" pretty much disappear in the first season and are treated like they never existed. UESPA was revived in later shows but Earth ship wasn't heard of again till Enterprise which was explicitly about an Earth ship.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2013, 12:23 AM   #19
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
UESPA and "Earth ship" pretty much disappear in the first season ...
The Enteprise was still being referred to as being from Earth in the last episode of the second TOS season (Assignment: Earth).

... but Earth ship wasn't heard of again till Enterprise which was explicitly about an Earth ship.
Encounter At Farpoint

Q: "Thou art directed to return to thine own solar system immediately ... Go back whence thou camest."
Picard: "Our only other option is to tuck tail between our legs and return to Earth as they demand."

Q never mentions Earth, but Picard does, the Enteprise D is from Earth.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2013, 01:11 AM   #20
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
UESPA and "Earth ship" pretty much disappear in the first season ...
The Enteprise was still being referred to as being from Earth in the last episode of the second TOS season (Assignment: Earth).

... but Earth ship wasn't heard of again till Enterprise which was explicitly about an Earth ship.
Encounter At Farpoint

Q: "Thou art directed to return to thine own solar system immediately ... Go back whence thou camest."
Picard: "Our only other option is to tuck tail between our legs and return to Earth as they demand."

Q never mentions Earth, but Picard does, the Enteprise D is from Earth.

I assume this is the quote?
SEVEN: Please identify yourselves.
KIRK: This is the United Spaceship Enterprise. I'm Captain Kirk, commanding.
SEVEN: (to the cat) Yes, I heard him, Isis. We're aboard a space vessel. From what planet?
KIRK: Earth.
The question was "What planet". Since the Enterprise was built, launched and is based on Earth, Kirk's answer is correct with out letting this stranger know about the future. "Earth ship" is a specific phrase. Mentions of "Earth" or "humans" aren't the same. Note that Kirk first IDs his ship as "United Spaceship Enterprise" not the Earth ship Enterprise.

Not seeing the phrase "Earth ship" in the TNG quote either. Which highlights how ill thought out Q's argument was. TOS established Starfleet and the UFP as being made up of multiple species and yet Q focuses on one species, the humans. What about all the other planets and species? Were they supposed to pack up and go home too? Or ignore the humans for the rest of time? Was Q going to transport Worf, Troi and the other non-humans back to their homeworlds or did he expect Picard to make a few stops on his way back to his own solar system?
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 1 2013, 01:33 AM   #21
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
UESPA was probably supposed to be a future version of NASA. Then they changed their minds and went with Starfleet. UESPA and "Earth ship" pretty much disappear in the first season and are treated like they never existed. UESPA was revived in later shows but Earth ship wasn't heard of again till Enterprise which was explicitly about an Earth ship.
I remember they tried about six or seven different names for the Enterprise's operating authority, during the early eps of TOS. Some of them sounded really corny and pulpish, like 'Star Service' and 'Space Command' and all that. UESPA wasn't much better, to be brutally honest...I greatly prefer Starfleet to any of the other names they used. Although it also works to have UESPA be something completely different, as they have since done.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2013, 04:31 AM   #22
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Some of them sounded really corny and pulpish, like ... 'Space Command'
The American military had a Space Command for about 17 years, then it was merged into the existing Strategic Command as part of a reorganization.

Vulcan had a space central, possibly for orbital traffic control. Remind me please, which episode had space command in it?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
SEVEN: Yes, I heard him, Isis. We're aboard a space vessel. From what planet?

KIRK: Earth.
.
Seven: "Yes, I heard him, Isis. We're aboard a space vessel. From what planet?"

Kirk: "Planets actual, the United Federation of Planets."

Except he didn't say that.


Last edited by T'Girl; June 2 2013 at 05:14 AM.
T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2013, 10:29 PM   #23
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Remind me please, which episode had space command in it?
Squire of Gothos

(actually it was 'Spacefleet Command')

T'Girl wrote: View Post
That's assuming that federation members retain a defense fleet, something like the Vulcan defense fleet mention in Reunification.
I'm fairly sure that does happen. When a new world joins the Federation, most of its space fleet is absorbed into Starfleet, but not all of it. I think there's a novel in which, subsequent to Bajor's joining the Federation, members of the Bajoran Militia are interviewed for postings in Starfleet, though the Militia still exists even after that.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2013, 12:42 AM   #24
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Some of them sounded really corny and pulpish, like ... 'Space Command'
The American military had a Space Command for about 17 years, then it was merged into the existing Strategic Command as part of a reorganization.

Vulcan had a space central, possibly for orbital traffic control. Remind me please, which episode had space command in it?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
SEVEN: Yes, I heard him, Isis. We're aboard a space vessel. From what planet?

KIRK: Earth.
.
Seven: "Yes, I heard him, Isis. We're aboard a space vessel. From what planet?"

Kirk: "Planets actual, the United Federation of Planets."

Except he didn't say that.

That information was need to know. And Gary Seven, did not need to know.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2013, 04:04 AM   #25
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
That information was need to know. And Gary Seven, did not need to know.
Please, like Kirk doesn't tell every man, woman and herd of goats where he's from.

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2013, 04:38 AM   #26
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
That information was need to know. And Gary Seven, did not need to know.
Please, like Kirk doesn't tell every man, woman and herd of goats where he's from.

Time Travel. "Spoilers, Sweetie".
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2013, 09:56 AM   #27
T'Girl
Vice Admiral
 
T'Girl's Avatar
 
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

^ Didn't we first clearly hear the words "United Earth Space Probe Agency" while Kirk was casually strolling down a corridor with a military pilot from the late 1960's?

T'Girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2013, 10:21 AM   #28
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

...Which thus casts the whole "UESPA" story in doubt.

something like the Vulcan defense fleet mention in Reunification.
The expression in "Unification II" is "the Vulcan defense vessels". Might mean vessels from a separate organization, but might just as well mean perfectly regular Starfleet vessels which happen to defend Vulcan.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2013, 01:36 AM   #29
timmy84
Commodore
 
timmy84's Avatar
 
Location: Washington
View timmy84's Twitter Profile
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

Original Star Trek is hard to reconcile with later Trek if you refuse to accept later Trek as being fact (or at least, the most accurate interpretation of that information). For example, it was mentioned on this thread that Star Fleet doesn't refer to an organization, but to a star fleet. However, in later trek, Starfleet is referred to as an organization, and that the original series Enterprise was a part of that organization. Also that the Federation Starfleet has always existed.

I know we try to desperately find explanations to make original Trek fact, but later Trek contradicts it. Its simply that. We know that UESPA is not giving orders to Starfleet by the end of the 23rd Century. We also know that non Federation governments view the Federation as Earth. Earth is the capitol of the Federation, and what we have seen on screen is that humans make up the most of the Starfleet's population. We also know that everything is in English on a Starfleet vessel (although I'm sure panels can display in any language, that doesn't change the fact that signs, like on doors are in english). English isn't an alien language. Its a language from Earth. Where the Federation has all of its government buildings.

So for me, which of course is just my opinion, is I disregard the UESPA references in the first series. It makes no sense to the greater continuity of this universe. Starfleet is the Federations defense agency, and is responsible for all defensive and offensive operations. At the same time Starfleet is a large organization, and performs many peacetime tasks. Like exploration.

Later trek has inserted UESPA into Trek history. So it did exist.

__________________
the cake is a lie.
timmy84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4 2013, 02:31 AM   #30
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: A Military Star Fleet and UESPA

T'Girl wrote: View Post
^ Didn't we first clearly hear the words "United Earth Space Probe Agency" while Kirk was casually strolling down a corridor with a military pilot from the late 1960's?

Different situation.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:49 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.