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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old May 31 2013, 08:55 PM   #151
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

A friend watched the first episode the other night and posted this to his Facebook feed this morning:

the wife and i watched the episode last night. and you know what: it was pretty fucking good. really high production value, a few sound recording issues, decent special effects and a more classic star trek story line involving ethics, morals and navigating challenges. although i think bones is a little too gay in this version. can't believe they actually pulled this off. looks like the producer also played kirk. good stuff considering it's not from a big studio."
For myself, I was completely wowed by the production. Everything from the production design to the performances. Certainly middysefort and Maurice raise fair criticisms, but I was pretty happy with this, with the obvious exception that I thought it was pretty dumb that those security guards just stood there while Apollo was force-choking Kirk. He might as well have thrown a shoe at him.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:00 PM   #152
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Re: TOS continues...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
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My suspicion is (in this case anyway) to fall back on the old saying: if you don't understand it then I can't explain it to you.

My sense is that you simply don't like the look and sensibility of TOS. Fine, if true, but then why pee on others' parade?
You are dead wrong.
I can appreciate both incarnations of TOS just fine.
But I don't think those who don't like the new Star Trek are stupid, while you always look down your nose at those who do like it and think just that.

Since Who mourns for Adonais was the first Star Trek episode I've ever seen, this episode here has a special appeal for me.
Well, maybe you're just trying to bait me into saying something inflammatory which I won't do. I don't like Abrams' Trek yet others do and that's their business. My opinion of others who like JJ is my own and my own business. I've heard reasons as to why they like it and I can only say that I don't see what they see.
You make your opinion of those who like the new Star Trek pretty clear.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:03 PM   #153
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Re: TOS continues...

beamMe wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post

You are dead wrong.
I can appreciate both incarnations of TOS just fine.
But I don't think those who don't like the new Star Trek are stupid, while you always look down your nose at those who do like it and think just that.

Since Who mourns for Adonais was the first Star Trek episode I've ever seen, this episode here has a special appeal for me.
Well, maybe you're just trying to bait me into saying something inflammatory which I won't do. I don't like Abrams' Trek yet others do and that's their business. My opinion of others who like JJ is my own and my own business. I've heard reasons as to why they like it and I can only say that I don't see what they see.
You make your opinion of those who like the new Star Trek pretty clear.
And I think you are trolling. I think you're trying to start an argument and using the subject of this thread as an excuse to do that. And so I'm done trying to reply to your posts.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:17 PM   #154
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Re: TOS continues...

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I also sense you are trying to get me to give Abrams some sort of credit.
Not my goal at all. I'm just curious as to where the heart of Trek is for you. How much can be stripped away from TOS before it stops appealing to you? It's really a general question for everyone on TrekBBS. Asking it makes me examine what I like about Trek. I'm not out to bait you. But you have made your opinion of JJTrek clear, so it was interesting for me to examine what made any version of Trek appealing to you. I appreciate your thoughtful answers.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:23 PM   #155
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Re: TOS continues...

What they're doing is simply "Star Trek Season 4." There are lots of fan films out there that take place in different eras. All of these reflect the primary interest of those making them. Fan film: a film made by fans. Fans = Fanatics. Either watch it or don't, why all this twisting about "being able to go forward" or whatever? Star Trek was never supposed to be a real look into the future. In fact, it was about 1966 man in a future time, so it never would have been accurate. Every technological invention of the series was made to be recognizable to that audience. It was always closer to "present day" than to 2200-whatever.

Also, why does it have to be "relevant?" Why can't it just be a fun visit to a series that many fans think should have had a 4th or 5th season? I wonder, does Star Trek's brand of Message Television even need to exist? Think about it, the taboos of the past are gone. People drop swear words on network television. We have nudity, frank discussions about sex, politics, terrorism, school shootings, racism, sexism, homophobia, racial profiling, and what have you. The time when it was necessary to hide these subjects behind "Martians and zap guns" is way over. Actually, redressing it to make it palatable for the masses is seen as soft and cowardly now. That part of Star Trek's intention is pretty much obsolete. All it really should be required to do now is tell mature, smart sci-fi stories with good characters, in an entertaining way.

Everyone's taste is different, but the reason why Star Trek Continues is presented like this is because that's they era of Star Trek they love most and are most interested in. It's season 4 and it was a fine premiere.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:24 PM   #156
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Re: TOS continues...

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
I also sense you are trying to get me to give Abrams some sort of credit.
Not my goal at all. I'm just curious as to where the heart of Trek is for you. How much can be stripped away from TOS before it stops appealing to you? It's really a general question for everyone on TrekBBS. Asking it makes me examine what I like about Trek. I'm not out to bait you. But you have made your opinion of JJTrek clear, so it was interesting for me to examine what made any version of Trek appealing to you. I appreciate your thoughtful answers.
Way back when TNG started I was...turned off. Granted the first season was rough, but at the time it was so different from what I recognized as Star Trek. It would be some years before I could look back at TNG and begin to see things I liked. After all was said and done I now like a good portion of the first three or four seasons because amongst the new things I liked I could see some of the original Star Trek elements in it. I could say the same for a handful of DS9 episodes. Ultimately what turned me off the rest was the style of writing seemed to change in a way I didn't care for and it really felt like they were retreading too much familiar ground over and over and over again. I just wasn't seeing what I needed to see to like it anymore.
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Old May 31 2013, 10:51 PM   #157
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Re: TOS continues...

I don't think understanding the appeal of Star Trek--or of fan productions based on Star Trek--is rocket science.

Star Trek is made up of a nearly infinite number of elements, with different viewers assigning nearly infinite different levels of importance to each of those elements.

The style of plotting, dialogue, characterizations, directing, cinematography, lighting, coloring, editing, art design, sets, set decorations, casting, acting, theme song, additional music, visual effects, special effects, sound effects, props, costuming, make-up, hairstyles, stunt work, the occasional singing and dancing, and even the style of font--all make Star Trek uniquely Star Trek. These elements were combined in some "secret formula" nearly fifty years ago, and have helped it achive the longevity it has experienced so far. The design aesthetic has changed over the years, of course--mostly necessitated by the needs associated with making things larger than life up on a big screen, instead of smaller than life on a small television picture tube. Even after "newer" "updated" design aesthetics of a series of Trek motion pictures, a return of the franchise to television in 1987 looks more like the original series than the movies probably do.

I think the intent of these Star Trek fan productions (well, of my production at any rate), is to "optimize" all those elements as much as possible to tell new adventures--on a small screen, of course. For some, trying to tell a new story with not-the-original actors is just crazy talk. For some, there's no problem with accepting new actors in familiar roles--but if you put them on a bridge that looks like an Apple store, that's just too unpalatable. For some, a sequel to an original Star Trek episode told with a 2009 art design aesthetic would be really cool. For others, that would be like putting bright yellow musard in a tall ketchup bottle: it would just look weird. But, for them, you could do it the other way: put the new actors on an "old" set design. For some, they really want to see tribbles again, or the gorn again, or Spock going into pon farr again; for others, they don't want the comfortably familar and they want something totally new. For some, they want to see how the world of Star Trek that we viewed through a 1966 lens actually transitioned to the world of animated Star Trek, to the movies, and to a new generation; others think that connecting all those dots is all just fan-wankery.

Importantly, I think the idea that an adherence to a 1966-1969 production aesthetic somehow actually prevents a production from acheiving any kind of quality storytelling is a false dichotomy. The Star Trek Phase II (formerly New Voyages) episode "World Enough and Time" was nominated for both a science fiction Hugo Award and a science fiction Nebula Award, losing out to the Doctor Who episode "Blink" and the motion picture Pan's Labyrinth, respecitvely. We were honored to have lost to those fine productions.

People like watching these things for different reasons; other people really hate watching these things for different reasons. But I don't think anyone is omnicient enough to know which elements are the truly fundamental elements of Star Trek and which ones are the ones that can be dispensed with. So for now I'll just work on producing the combination of elements that I think is "optimal," given the limited resources.

Of course, Star Trek fan productions didn't invent the idea of doing pastiches; we're just doing it using a medium that hadn't really been employed much before. But pastiches are admittedly not for everyone--no matter what the medium.

And all of this "what's the attraction of Star Trek fan films?" is something that's been discussed for nearly ten years now; the subject isn't really a new one all of a sudden.

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Old June 1 2013, 12:18 AM   #158
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Re: TOS continues...

I had the thought that fan films were essentially little different than community theatre. Small groups have been retelling or revisiting stories in theatre forever. The advent of film (and television) allowed plays or stories to be shared with even bigger audiences. And now so does the Internet. Not everyone will like what they see, but there's sure to be something out there for most tastes.
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Old June 1 2013, 12:34 AM   #159
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Re: TOS continues...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I had the thought that fan films were essentially little different than community theatre. Small groups have been retelling or revisiting stories in theatre forever. The advent of film (and television) allowed plays or stories to be shared with even bigger audiences. And now so does the Internet. Not everyone will like what they see, but there's sure to be something out there for most tastes.
Amen.
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Old June 1 2013, 12:41 AM   #160
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

For me, it's simple. I like space shows. They're my absolute favorite kind of "television," and nobody seems to be making them these days except fan groups.

I've enjoyed Star Trek since I was a kid in the seventies, and I enjoy the fanfilms now. They're not perfect, but I'd rather watch an imperfect version of something I like than a perfect example of something I don't.
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Old June 1 2013, 02:50 AM   #161
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

Holy cow, was that GREAT!

Quoting the friend mentioned above: "and a more classic star trek story line involving ethics, morals and navigating challenges." Yes: personal growth and redemption through service to others instead of domination; including Scotty's finally giving in to his own better angels.

To answer a query way upthread, I would LOVE this kind of story told by JJ. Let's see it. People told me to hold out hope for a more "humane" plot (less comic book-y, defeat the Kewl, superhuman bad guy) from JJ in '13. I have abandoned hope for a Star Trekky story in the final JJ. I could care less. Not only do I have my ol' trusty DVDs, I now have this new series. I'm looking in to how to contribute.

Totally ASIDE from the production values, they nailed it. A thoroughly unexpected, great end to a terrible week: I just watched a new Star Trek episode with my child. Man, it doesn't get much better than that.
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Old June 1 2013, 03:43 AM   #162
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Re: TOS continues...

Barbreader wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
I had the thought that fan films were essentially little different than community theatre. Small groups have been retelling or revisiting stories in theatre forever. The advent of film (and television) allowed plays or stories to be shared with even bigger audiences. And now so does the Internet. Not everyone will like what they see, but there's sure to be something out there for most tastes.
Amen.
ditto
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Old June 1 2013, 04:02 AM   #163
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Re: TOS continues...

MikeH92467 wrote: View Post
Barbreader wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
I had the thought that fan films were essentially little different than community theatre. Small groups have been retelling or revisiting stories in theatre forever. The advent of film (and television) allowed plays or stories to be shared with even bigger audiences. And now so does the Internet. Not everyone will like what they see, but there's sure to be something out there for most tastes.
Amen.
ditto
yeppers -- and considering how many of Potemkin's cast are in local theater as well as our series, dead-on accurate
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Old June 1 2013, 04:21 AM   #164
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Re: TOS continues...

mos6507 wrote: View Post
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Kirk does have conferences and does ask for opinions, BUT in the end, he usually makes his own decisions.
There are a couple TOS episodes that come to mind that are mostly tension over "what should we do?". Savage Curtain spends a lot of runtime with Kirk deciding whether to trust the simulated Lincoln. And the episode this most resembles, Where No Man Has Gone Before, is almost all hand-wringing on how to handle Gary Mitchell.

It's true that TNG took this much farther, though.

But remember - in "The Savage Curtain" Kirk went AGAINST the consensus of his senior staff - they were all against further contact, which lead to his "Risk is our business" speech.
^^^
Again, that's my point - it's not the conference scenes I objected to as 'TNGish' per se - it was how the character of Kirk was written for those scenes; effectively not deciding until his senior staff had come to a consensus. <--- That (IMO) wasn't TOS era Kirk.

As for "Where No Man Has Gone Before" - the 'handwringing' of James Kirk wasn't deciding what to do - he KNEW what he had to/should do; but it was coming to grips with the fact he had to do it to a long and trusted friend; and he was desperately trying to find another solution - and only at the end did he come to grips with the fact that killing his old friend was the only way to save the ship, and its crew.
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Old June 1 2013, 04:53 AM   #165
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

The "risk is our business" speech is actually from "Return To Tomorrow."

I just watched this for the third time within the past few days. Yeah, it has little things that seem a tad out of place, but overall it really rocks. It has a real authentic vibe to it.

On another note the Enterprise is freakin' gorgeous here. This is what TOS-R should have looked like.

Amazing how a collection of dedicated fans could put the million dollar resources of CBS to shame.
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