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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Star Trek Into Darkness.
Outstanding 5 33.33%
Above Average 4 26.67%
Average 6 40.00%
Below Average 0 0%
Poor 0 0%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 31 2013, 10:08 PM   #46
ATimson
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

Christopher wrote: View Post
But didn't the movie make it clear that the torpedoes were shielded against scans? That's why they had to open one up to discover what was inside. So how could Khan have scanned them?
Khan designed them; he may know how to defeat the scan shielding. (Much like how the Enterprise-D was normally shielded against photon torpedoes...)
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Old May 31 2013, 11:17 PM   #47
datalogan
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

Christopher wrote: View Post
The comics were seeded with bits of foreshadowing for the movie, not the other way around. Given how many continuity errors there are in the comics, I really doubt that the filmmakers are paying that much attention to them at all. And there's absolutely no reason in the comic why that Bajoran woman was called Mudd; it's totally random unless it was done to tie into the already-scripted line in the movie.
But it may be possible that the idea to put in the Mudd line, and to have the Mudd character in the Countdown to Darkness comics was a change that happen late enough in the process that it didn't get incorporated into the novelization before it went to print.

Christopher wrote: View Post
K'normians were one of the background races from ST:TMP. Beyond that, it's just a name, an indication that this was a civilian ship that wouldn't be associated with Starfleet and thus made sense to use for a covert mission.
I get that. I was just looking/hoping for a little more reasoning as to why they would use the name of that race for their cover story. Humans and Vulcans don't look that much like K'normians.

Christopher wrote: View Post

The scene where Kirk and Spock discuss the plan for Kirk to take Khan over to the Vengeance. In the movie this plays out pretty well, with Kirk saying “I don’t know what I should do; I only know what I can do.”
I thought he said that to McCoy.
A lot of us thought that initially when watching the trailer. But in the movie it was clearly Spock that Kirk was talking to.


Christopher wrote: View Post
didn't the movie make it clear that the torpedoes were shielded against scans? That's why they had to open one up to discover what was inside. So how could Khan have scanned them?
Good point. Maybe a goof? Or maybe I'll have to re-read that to see what was mentioned in the extended explanation in the novelization.
I do remember there being some limitations to Khan's scans of the torpedoes. Like, it took time and he could only do one at a time. So he didn't bother doing them all. That's how the novelization explains how Khan missed the fact that one of the torpedoes was about to explode. [The others went by chain reaction from the one that McCoy rigged to explode.] Actually, that whole thing plays out pretty well in the novelization. There's a discussion about the odds that Khan would check the one that was rigged to explode, with a good discussion of how Spock was "playing the odds" or "playing chess" with Khan [although poker might have been a better allusion].
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Old June 1 2013, 01:06 AM   #48
Christopher
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

datalogan wrote: View Post
I was just looking/hoping for a little more reasoning as to why they would use the name of that race for their cover story. Humans and Vulcans don't look that much like K'normians.
Neither do Bajorans. There's no law that says a person of one species can't buy or operate a ship built by a different species. Heck, we've seen plenty of instances in the shows where the same starship model was recycled for different aliens' ships, like the Arkonian warship from ENT: "Dawn" being reused for Xindi and Tellarite ships later. So there's precedent for the idea of one species buying ships built by a different species.
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Old June 1 2013, 06:22 AM   #49
datalogan
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

Christopher wrote: View Post
datalogan wrote: View Post
I was just looking/hoping for a little more reasoning as to why they would use the name of that race for their cover story. Humans and Vulcans don't look that much like K'normians.
Neither do Bajorans. There's no law that says a person of one species can't buy or operate a ship built by a different species. Heck, we've seen plenty of instances in the shows where the same starship model was recycled for different aliens' ships, like the Arkonian warship from ENT: "Dawn" being reused for Xindi and Tellarite ships later. So there's precedent for the idea of one species buying ships built by a different species.
Yeah, but in the film Kirk says to the security guys that "you're K'normian merchants now". To me, that implied that they were supposed to be pretending to be from that race.
But I guess he could have just meant "merchants for the K'Normians". Which, as you say Christopher, could be from any race.
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Old June 1 2013, 01:29 PM   #50
Christopher
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

datalogan wrote: View Post
Yeah, but in the film Kirk says to the security guys that "you're K'normian merchants now". To me, that implied that they were supposed to be pretending to be from that race.
Or maybe it's a nation rather than a race. One thing I hate about Trek and most other SF is the way they treat the two as interchangeable, as if every political entity were defined on purely racial grounds. There are Americans whose ancestors come from every country in the world; why can't there be people who are K'normian by nationality but human by birth, or Vulcan by nationality yet Denobulan by birth, or what-have-you? (It would certainly explain why there are two completely different-looking species called Ktarians, and several different ones called Rigelians.)

In any case, we have seen instances where characters impersonated members of another species by using audio communication only. Perhaps Kirk's plan was that they'd use the K'normian scout ship and identify themselves as K'normians over the radio if challenged, but wouldn't send a visual transmission.
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Old June 3 2013, 05:15 AM   #51
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

Christopher wrote: View Post
Or maybe it's a nation rather than a race. One thing I hate about Trek and most other SF is the way they treat the two as interchangeable, as if every political entity were defined on purely racial grounds. There are Americans whose ancestors come from every country in the world; why can't there be people who are K'normian by nationality but human by birth, or Vulcan by nationality yet Denobulan by birth, or what-have-you? (It would certainly explain why there are two completely different-looking species called Ktarians, and several different ones called Rigelians.)
You have a good point there. I have seen this handled in other SF, but Star Trek pretty much avoids that outside of the Federation in the show. Oddly enough, due to the way MMO games are designed, the Star Trek Online game actually does this, for example making the Gorn a race but a member of the Klingon Empire.

Christopher wrote: View Post
In any case, we have seen instances where characters impersonated members of another species by using audio communication only. Perhaps Kirk's plan was that they'd use the K'normian scout ship and identify themselves as K'normians over the radio if challenged, but wouldn't send a visual transmission.
Having seen the movie twice now, I'm pretty sure this was his intent, especially since his backup plan when he was forced to land was to go out Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid style.
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Old June 5 2013, 03:35 PM   #52
FatherRob
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

My review of the book is now live at: http://trekbook.blogspot.com/2013/05...-darkness.html

In short, the book was more successful than the film... though nuTrek still leaves me feeling cold.
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