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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old April 24 2013, 06:19 PM   #91
BillJ
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

indolover wrote: View Post
I personally don't give a crap if any art work has to be realistic. The Roddenberry vision can be seen as it is, as a hope and dream.
Unrealistic TV shows are fine. But don't be surprised when a long-running franchise like Star Trek that depicts an unrealistic humanity eventually examines the flip-side. Don't be surprised when they eventually examine the cost such a society would have, the the things people would be willing to do to protect it.

When they present an "unrealistic" humanity, they open up other storytelling options in the process.
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Old April 24 2013, 06:31 PM   #92
indolover
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

BillJ wrote: View Post
indolover wrote: View Post
I personally don't give a crap if any art work has to be realistic. The Roddenberry vision can be seen as it is, as a hope and dream.
Unrealistic TV shows are fine. But don't be surprised when a long-running franchise like Star Trek that depicts an unrealistic humanity eventually examines the flip-side. Don't be surprised when they eventually examine the cost such a society would have, the the things people would be willing to do to protect it.

When they present an "unrealistic" humanity, they open up other storytelling options in the process.
I don't care. Since I see works for what they are in their context. Nobody in this thread has frankly mentioned why all artistic works need to be realistic.
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Old April 24 2013, 06:31 PM   #93
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
indolover wrote: View Post
Only fools and losers believe in "morality".


First good laugh of the day. Thanks.
then you're weak if you endorse the contrary.
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Old April 24 2013, 06:42 PM   #94
marksound
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

indolover wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post
indolover wrote: View Post
Only fools and losers believe in "morality".


First good laugh of the day. Thanks.
then you're weak if you endorse the contrary.

Stop it! You're killing me!
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Old April 24 2013, 06:45 PM   #95
indolover
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

Yeah, it's good I made a psychologically imbalanced person laugh.
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Old April 24 2013, 07:06 PM   #96
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

indolover wrote: View Post
Yeah, it's good I made a psychologically imbalanced person laugh.

indeed-laughter is the best medicine
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Old April 25 2013, 04:30 AM   #97
indolover
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

Laughter? You all endorse "morality". That in itself requires laughter.
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Old April 26 2013, 01:18 AM   #98
wingsabre
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

indolover wrote: View Post
wingsabre wrote: View Post
I though it was one of, if not the best episode in the season/series. Gene Roddenberry had an ideal universe, where humanity eventually evolved to the point of avoiding conflict. However, humans will always be humans. We can built great things such as the pyramids, or reach for the stars, but we can still be capable of doing horrible things to each others a well.
Yeah, so all unrealistic artistic works have to be canned....

Look, even Roddenberry created situations where humans did despicable things out of greed, fear, etc... He may have a utopian future in his mind, but even he relented to human nature. Roddenberry created Harry Mudd after all. He created a world where Kirk was a womanizer and was weak to control his lust. He created a future where his heroes allowed a good woman die so the world will be a better place. He created a world where his heroes too had to acquiesced to thievery and treachery in order to steal the Romulan Cloaking device, just so they can protect their precious Federation. Look at any piece of art out there and you'll see that there's no absolute black or white, but there are also shades of grey. Sometimes there are no good decisions, just the least bad decision and Roddenberry understood that. Sisko's least bad decisions brought the Romulans into the war, and prevent an epoc of genocide and tyrannical rule from the Dominion.

Just because you hate certain aspects of the episode does not give you the right to force others to think the same way. If that's your goal, you should give up now because I know what I like and no one can convince me otherwise.

Last edited by wingsabre; April 26 2013 at 08:57 PM.
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Old May 29 2013, 05:11 PM   #99
Crazyewok
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

wingsabre wrote: View Post


Look, even Roddenberry created situations where humans did despicable things out of greed, fear, etc... He may have a utopian future in his mind, but even he relented to human nature. Roddenberry created Harry Mudd after all. He created a world where Kirk was a womanizer and was weak to control his lust. He created a future where his heroes allowed a good woman die so the world will be a better place. He created a world where his heroes too had to acquiesced to thievery and treachery in order to steal the Romulan Cloaking device, just so they can protect their precious Federation. Look at any piece of art out there and you'll see that there's no absolute black or white, but there are also shades of grey. Sometimes there are no good decisions, just the least bad decision and Roddenberry understood that. Sisko's least bad decisions brought the Romulans into the war, and prevent an epoc of genocide and tyrannical rule from the Dominion.

Just because you hate certain aspects of the episode does not give you the right to force others to think the same way. If that's your goal, you should give up now because I know what I like and no one can convince me otherwise.
That why I gte confused when certain people cry about Rodenberry "vision" I mean look at the TOS you had crew bullying (ok that may be abit extrme), a man slut who liked to bend the rules and a universe full of theives and criminals.


By the time TNG is created Rodenberry seems to have become retarded. HE hippie lala land trek is boring. It may be Art but it sucks, which is why TNG first 2 series sucked and nearly killed it. Art all well and good but when you are makeing a TV show you have to be consistant and make something people want to watch.
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Old May 29 2013, 05:40 PM   #100
RXTT
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

NO! I LOVE IT! DS9 4EVER!!!! Love that episode. It got to the real heart of war. Makes TOS and TNG look like VOY!!!!!!
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Old May 30 2013, 07:35 AM   #101
Nightdiamond
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

Hate it? That ending with Sisko telling the computer to erase the entire confession was one of the best Trek endings ever.

Garak's speech to Sisko at the end was one of the best Trek speeches ever.

re: cloaking....I gather that the Dominion sometimes can see through a cloaking device, like if they set up their scanners in a special way.

I've seen a number of times when it did appear to work against them.

Morality...maybe it doesn't exist "naturally" in the universe but it's all the more reason to create it and enforce it. Otherwise we're back to the stone ages.

Depending on what definition of morality we're talking about.
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Old May 31 2013, 08:49 AM   #102
Vulcan Logician
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
indolover wrote: View Post
Carcazoid wrote: View Post


First good laugh of the day. Thanks.
then you're weak if you endorse the contrary.

Stop it! You're killing me!
Weak to endorse the contrary? Morality requires great strength. Sure, sitting around and judging people is easy. But acting in a moral manner is very difficult. Sticking to principles is difficult. Acting in accordance with societal norms is weak, yes. But acting against those norms because you posses a greater moral truth is very difficult and requires tremendous strength. How is morality weak, then?
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Old May 31 2013, 09:27 PM   #103
doctorfoto
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Re: Anyone here who HATES "in the pale moonlight"

My only issue with this episode is that people are always talking about it. I thought the record was deleted.

Seriously though, I know it's silly, but fanfic and legitimate fiction "follow-ups" to this episode do kind of irk me for the same reason. The whole weight of the episode lies in Sisko's last line and action. "I *can* live with it."

>BOOM!< .. Huh?! What episode? What are you talking about?
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