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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 31 2013, 08:09 PM   #256
Richard Baker
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

I always thought of Khan as being beyond national origins- his genes were mixed in a blender and he was engineered to have certain attributes. While not as extreme as Dagwood (the prototype G.E.L.F. in SeaQuest), he was more of an exotic mix instead of having parents from a certain region.
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Old May 31 2013, 08:19 PM   #257
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Not many Brits I've met like to consider themselves European. Irish and Scots too. The Welsh...well...I think they're just happy nobody has conquered them again lately.
Just a geographic generalization.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:01 PM   #258
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
I find it's a lot less complicated to accept that the "Uhura don't know Klingon" gag was one of the dumber things ever concocted in the history of Trek and simply forget it ever happened. Actually, that works nicely for most of TUC.
It's like McCoy not knowing Klingon anatomy when he tries to save Gorkon's life, when we now know that Starfleet had at least somewhat detailed scans and information about Klingon physiology as far back as the crash landing of Klaang in Oklahoma in 2151 and it's possible that the Vulcans provided additional knowledge about the Empire as they saw fit. McCoy and the 1701 and 1701-A crews had frequent run-ins with Klingons over the course of the decades and were often within tricorder scanning range of them.

McCoy not knowing how to save Gorkon in TUC is along the lines of Uhura not knowing how to speak any Klingon - it works in the context of that one film and its assassination and prison break storyline, but beyond that it falls into pretty silly territory and would be dismissed otherwise.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:12 PM   #259
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Good points, but that was M'Sharak, not me.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:18 PM   #260
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Fixed the quote for ya.

Yeah, TUC is one of the great Trek films but it has some silly and contradictory scenes and dialogue. When McCoy fails to save Gorkon's life it's in large part because he doesn't know enough about Klingon anatomy to rescue the Chancellor. Later in the film Spock tells Scotty and Valeris that Klingons do not have tear ducts. Apparently somebody somewhere aboard the Enterprise-A has detailed enough knowledge of Klingon physiology that they can tell fellow officers that the species lacks tear ducts (which in and of itself makes no sense given all the times over the course of the franchise we've seen Klingon eyes well up with moisture or even tears, but that's another story).

McCoy could have used Spock's help, or if it was something that Spock had to look up in the Enterprise databanks after the assassination then that computer data would have come in mighty handy when McCoy and Kirk beamed over to Gorkon's cruiser. No matter how you slice it something doesn't add up - but it all seems to work in that film and make for a very entertaining and thrilling story, which is what really matters most.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:19 PM   #261
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
M'Sharak wrote: View Post
I find it's a lot less complicated to accept that the "Uhura don't know Klingon" gag was one of the dumber things ever concocted in the history of Trek and simply forget it ever happened. Actually, that works nicely for most of TUC.
It's like McCoy not knowing Klingon anatomy when he tries to save Gorkon's life, when we now know that Starfleet had at least somewhat detailed scans and information about Klingon physiology as far back as the crash landing of Klaang in Oklahoma in 2151 and it's possible that the Vulcans provided additional knowledge about the Empire as they saw fit. McCoy and the 1701 and 1701-A crews had frequent run-ins with Klingons over the course of the decades and were often within tricorder scanning range of them.

McCoy not knowing how to save Gorkon in TUC is along the lines of Uhura not knowing how to speak any Klingon - it works in the context of that one film and its assassination and prison break storyline, but beyond that it falls into pretty silly territory and would be dismissed otherwise.
That's a perfect reason why JJ blew out all canon. It didn't make any damned sense.

I can't believe that the command staff of the flagship of the Federation (the ship tasked with highly delicate job of Klingon diplomacy) didn't know a damned thing about the Klingons.

It would be like the chief of protocol at the State Department in the 1980s not know anything about the Soviet Union.

As far as not knowing anything about Klingon anatomy? Even ignoring the retconning job Enterprise did...there wasn't ever one Klingon corpse found by Starfleet in the past 100 years? Even if McCoy didn't personally dissect the body, his professional curiosity should have forced him to read a damned book on the matter.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:23 PM   #262
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

He did seem to know enough about Klingon anatomy when he outed Arne Darvin in "Trouble With Tribbles" with his tricorder 25 years earlier.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:26 PM   #263
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

McCoy stood less than a foot away from Arne Darvin and took a tricorder scan of the guy. That's how he knew that Darvin was a Klingon. His heartbeat and body temperature among other things didn't add up and look human. Darvin had been surgically altered to look human but internally he was still a run of the mill Klingon, and those scans were recorded on McCoy's tricorder and those scans were entered into Kirk's logs concerning the Sherman's Planet sabotage incident. Somebody somewhere knew about Klingon anatomy, and that was decades before Enterprise finally told the backstory of Klingon first contact.

I love Trek and for a franchise that's almost half a century old and has about 800 television episodes and big-budget theatrical films penned by a horde of different writers it's remarkably consistent, but there are times it makes as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:30 PM   #264
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
McCoy stood less than a foot away from Arne Darvin and took a tricorder scan of the guy. That's how he knew that Darvin was a Klingon. His heartbeat and body temperature among other things didn't add up and look human. Darvin had been surgically altered to look human but internally he was still a run of the mill Klingon, and those scans were recorded on McCoy's tricorder and those scans were entered into Kirk's logs concerning the Sherman's Planet sabotage incident. Somebody somewhere knew about Klingon anatomy, and that was decades before Enterprise finally told the backstory of Klingon first contact.

I love Trek and for a franchise that's almost half a century old and has about 800 television episodes and big-budget theatrical films penned by a horde of different writers it's remarkably consistent, but there are times it makes as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.
How do we know the tricorder didn't flash the word "Klingon" in bright red letters on its screen.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:33 PM   #265
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Tricorders for Dummies™ ?

Wait, the Pakleds were members of the Federation all this time and we never knew it?
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Old May 31 2013, 09:37 PM   #266
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

BillJ wrote: View Post
cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
McCoy stood less than a foot away from Arne Darvin and took a tricorder scan of the guy. That's how he knew that Darvin was a Klingon. His heartbeat and body temperature among other things didn't add up and look human. Darvin had been surgically altered to look human but internally he was still a run of the mill Klingon, and those scans were recorded on McCoy's tricorder and those scans were entered into Kirk's logs concerning the Sherman's Planet sabotage incident. Somebody somewhere knew about Klingon anatomy, and that was decades before Enterprise finally told the backstory of Klingon first contact.

I love Trek and for a franchise that's almost half a century old and has about 800 television episodes and big-budget theatrical films penned by a horde of different writers it's remarkably consistent, but there are times it makes as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.
How do we know the tricorder didn't flash the word "Klingon" in bright red letters on its screen.
True, but then someone would have to have had a knowledge of Klingon anatomy to program it to say that. Either way, it should have been common knowledge, especially for a surgeon of McCoy's caliber.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:38 PM   #267
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

McCoy only had seconds to try to save Gorkon. Having human anatomy committed to memory is different than having done/seen a couple of scans on a couple of random Klingons over the years.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:40 PM   #268
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Also true, but I think the point being made was McCoy's rather blanket statement in TUC that he didn't know Klingon anatomy at all, which was canonically untrue.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:45 PM   #269
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Well, his knowledge of Vulcan anatomy was always a bit spotty.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:46 PM   #270
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Little details from that scene on Gorkon's cruiser escape me, but didn't McCoy have a medical tricorder with him when he beamed over and didn't he wave one of his handheld scanners over Gorkon's wounds? A Starfleet medical tricorder circa 2293 should have had at least some Klingon anatomical data in its memory database given all the times that tricorders were shown to be able to access a ton of handy information even if they weren't interfaced with a ship's computer.

I dunno, it just looked and sounded weird and silly given that McCoy had 27 years of experience running into Klingons and that was just aboard the two Enterprises. He might have run into some of them even before he first joined the 1701 crew in TOS seeing as the Enterprise wasn't his first deep space assignment after medical school.

The movie's plot and pacing didn't require any of that, though, so it is what it is.
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