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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 31 2013, 04:18 PM   #241
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I'm curious how far this "spot on casting" should go. Kirk is a Scots-American. Shatner is Jewish-Canadian. Should they have passed him over in favor of Scots-American? Or perhaps Kirk is Jewish and Pine is wrong for the part. Spock's human ancestry appears to be British. (Mother is a Grayson, ancestors are Doyles or Holmes) Are the Jewish-Russian Nimoy and Italian-Irish Quinto therefore wrong for the part? Then we have an New Zealander of German ancestry play the Scots-American McCoy!!!!
You hit the nail on the head. People will insist that this doesn't matter because they're all "white," which simply underscores the problem with how people - and certainly trekkies in particular - see "race."

If one can't accept Cumberbatch as the fictitious Khan in a story, one has a problem - the filmmakers don't.
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Old May 31 2013, 05:25 PM   #242
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Set Harth wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
And Starbuck is a man.

Until she's not.
That's the beauty of an actual "clean break" reboot which doesn't claim to have any connection to the prior continuity.

Like, you can change Perry White to a black guy if you're starting over with a Superman reboot.

STXI, on the other hand, wasn't a reboot. Some people not employed by the franchise just tend to insist that it was.

Kirk stayed white.

Uhura stayed black.

Chekov stayed Russian.

Sulu stayed Asian.

Everyone stayed the same sex they started as.

Et cetera.
And Khan stayed European.

I'm reminded of my uncle, who has a Chinese last name because his father was Chinese. This name has been passed down to his son and grandsons, who are less and less Chinese. They will more than likely pass this name to their sons as well. One could speculate/rationalize (Trekkie specialties) that Khan has remote Indian ancestry but is also European.

I'm curious how far this "spot on casting" should go. Kirk is a Scots-American. Shatner is Jewish-Canadian. Should they have passed him over in favor of Scots-American? Or perhaps Kirk is Jewish and Pine is wrong for the part. Spock's human ancestry appears to be British. (Mother is a Grayson, ancestors are Doyles or Holmes) Are the Jewish-Russian Nimoy and Italian-Irish Quinto therefore wrong for the part? Then we have an New Zealander of German ancestry play the Scots-American McCoy!!!!
It gets worse. Zoe Saldana -- who is Dominican and Puerto Rican and in real life speaks English and Spanish -- is supposed to be playing a character who's native language is Swahili.

On the one hand, you can excuse it in the Abramsverse by explaining that Uhura actually speaks EVERY language, including Swahili. OTOH, Uhura Prime doesn't even speak Klingon fluently...
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Old May 31 2013, 05:30 PM   #243
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

^^^ I thought that odd as well. Then it occurred to me that, in this timeline, the Klingons may have become a greater threat to the Federation than they were in the prime timeline (based on some of Admiral Marcus' anti-Klingon dialog), which might have changed NuUhura's language curriculum by the time she got to the Academy.
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Old May 31 2013, 05:30 PM   #244
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

FFunctionalData wrote: View Post
thought they looked good. i enjoyed them changing what they looked like in the 90's.

I can not tell you why Spock going back in time would change how an entire alien race would look but i am not going to dig to deep.
The same reason Klingons went from looking like Mexicans to looking like they had a caterpillar glued to their forehead to looking like they had turtle shells glued to their foreheads.

$$$
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Old May 31 2013, 05:34 PM   #245
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Meh. By the time that 2259 rolls around in the altered timeline maybe the Empire had developed the cure for the Augment mutation virus and the effects it had on Klingons. It happened in the Prime history sometime before ST:TMP happened (2273) and that's just a fourteen-year difference.

If those were supposed to have been the shattered remnants of Praxis and the moon was overmined a full 34 earlier than it was in the Prime timeline then the Klingons curing the Augment virus a little bit sooner isn't out of the question. Pretty simple, really.
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Old May 31 2013, 05:38 PM   #246
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

^^^ Yep. Makes sense.
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Old May 31 2013, 05:43 PM   #247
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Years ago, when I was a bit more of an anal-retentive fanboy, I made a map of the Klingon Homeworld and assigned each make up variation to a different geographic location.
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Old May 31 2013, 05:59 PM   #248
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Years ago, when I was a bit more of an anal-retentive fanboy, I made a map of the Klingon Homeworld and assigned each make up variation to a different geographic location.
That makes a lot more sense than anything else, IMO. It's also a much more elegant solution; surely Klingons have different racial subgroups just like humans do, with some having very prominent ridges and some having ridges partially submerged in the skull bones.

Wasn't in Rodenberry who once half-jokingly suggested, when asked about the difference in appearance, that the Klingons in TOS were "southern Klingons" or something like that?
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Old May 31 2013, 06:06 PM   #249
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
And Khan stayed European.
Nope.

Khan changed from non-European to European.

One of these things is not like the others.
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Old May 31 2013, 06:17 PM   #250
Nerys Myk
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Set Harth wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
And Khan stayed European.
Nope.

Khan changed from non-European to European.

One of these things is not like the others.
The actor playing him was European. So he must be European. That's why nuKhan is European, right?
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Old May 31 2013, 07:03 PM   #251
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Not many Brits I've met like to consider themselves European. Irish and Scots too. The Welsh...well...I think they're just happy nobody has conquered them again lately.
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Old May 31 2013, 07:05 PM   #252
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
Not many Brits I've met like to consider themselves European. Irish and Scots too. The Welsh...well...I think they're just happy nobody has conquered them again lately.
And I'm sure Canadians and Mexicans would be confused if someone called them Americans, even though technically they are.
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Old May 31 2013, 07:18 PM   #253
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post

On the one hand, you can excuse it in the Abramsverse by explaining that Uhura actually speaks EVERY language, including Swahili. OTOH, Uhura Prime doesn't even speak Klingon fluently...
137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
^^^ I thought that odd as well. Then it occurred to me that, in this timeline, the Klingons may have become a greater threat to the Federation than they were in the prime timeline (based on some of Admiral Marcus' anti-Klingon dialog), which might have changed NuUhura's language curriculum by the time she got to the Academy.
I find it's a lot less complicated to accept that the "Uhura don't know Klingon" gag was one of the dumber things ever concocted in the history of Trek and simply forget it ever happened. Actually, that works nicely for most of TUC.
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Old May 31 2013, 07:36 PM   #254
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

^^^ Occam's sitting on your shoulder again, isn't he?
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Old May 31 2013, 07:45 PM   #255
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Re: Klingons in STID--why do they look like [SPOILERS]?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I find it's a lot less complicated to accept that the "Uhura don't know Klingon" gag was one of the dumber things ever concocted in the history of Trek and simply forget it ever happened. Actually, that works nicely for most of TUC.
Damn straight.
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