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Fan Productions Creating our own Trek canon!

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Old May 30 2013, 09:20 PM   #106
Pavonis
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Re: TOS continues...

Thank you for the link. I'll read it. Still, what about Apollo's story called out for a sequel? What's the heart of this story? That Apollo and the Olympian Gods didn't have to be the dicks they were? It's a nice lesson, I guess.

Was slavish devotion to TOS set design and costuming necessary to tell the story, though? Might the thrill of seeing the excellent recreations of the sets be the real appeal of this production?
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Old May 30 2013, 09:41 PM   #107
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Re: TOS continues...

Pavonis wrote: View Post
Thank you for the link. I'll read it. Still, what about Apollo's story called out for a sequel? What's the heart of this story? That Apollo and the Olympian Gods didn't have to be the dicks they were? It's a nice lesson, I guess.

Was slavish devotion to TOS set design and costuming necessary to tell the story, though? Might the thrill of seeing the excellent recreations of the sets be the real appeal of this production?
Yes! And the camera angles and the music and the costumes and the style of dialog! I watched the teaser and stopped so I can watch the rest for the first time with my Trek-obsessed daughter. Any old-timers will be glad to know she loves all incarnations including Voyager (what got her into Berman-Trek), but often chioses TOS to watch. We're doing "Adonais" tonight, then Continues tomorrow.

When it comes to art, the execution and the specific aesthetics matter. That's why JJ leaves me behind, with sore ears and jangled nerves. And why I love the original iteration of Trek. It is my first love and suited to my temperament.
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Old May 30 2013, 09:43 PM   #108
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Re: TOS continues...

Pavonis wrote: View Post
But what is "fresh" about "Pilgrim of Eternity"? And what kind of name is that anyway? Why is it fresh to revisit Apollo? Most of the episode is about him. Why should I care about the god Apollo again? Besides, didn't he die in "Who Mourns for Adonais?" Now he's not only not dead, he's immortal.

Let me ask this - if this fan episode had been shot on the JJTrek sets, with JJTrek costumes, and why not, even used the JJTrek actors, would it still be "fresh"? Or would it have turned off the same people who are applauding it currently?
It's just a new story. And it's told in a way that resonates with a lot of people who are/were fans of the original series.

No, it wouldn't be the same with JJ's style and approach because he and the general audience he's targeting likely wouldn't go for it. It's not flashy and noisy enough. It's also a small scale story as opposed to what Hollywood suits and many general audience movie goers usually expect in a summer movie: a big baddy that wreaks destruction and threatens everything and everyone and needs to be stopped with a lot of flash and bang.

There is a message of a sort in this fan production: that someone who has lived under a mistaken assumption his entire life can still learn and be redeemed. And there is also a secondary message of understanding and forgiveness. Kirk and crew had every reason to distrust Apollo and yet they still made an effort to allow him a chance to prove his reformation.

I'm one of those who think Star Trek has always done better on television because it's a different game better suited to the type of stories Star Trek can tell. A feature film often comes with a lot of baggage and expectation to be bigger and bigger. And very few people seem to be able to write a thoughtful and entertaining story for film. This isn't a new problem as it's been going on for years. If you want a block-buster then it carries certain expectations and preconceptions that it has to follow a certain formula. If you're not out to be a block-buster then I think that gives you more creative freedom because the expectations and preconceptions lessen or are at least different.

Another difference is characterization. JJ's characters are paper thin caricatures. Kirk was essentially portrayed as a punk for example, an impulsive and often self-centred hothead. That isn't the Kirk that Shatner or Vic Mignogna portray. Their Kirk is decisive yet also reflective. Their Kirk is also seasoned and came by his position in a credible manner, by working his way up the ranks and proving himself every gruelling and tedious step of the way. The Kirk character is but one example of how the TOS universe supposedly works and it's quite different then how the JJverse seems to work: by arbitrariness and happenstance.

Abrams was out to make a summer block-buster, a popcorn flick. The STC folks were out to make a story suitable for episodic television and in the style that TOS was known for and endeared itself to countless fans.
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Old May 30 2013, 10:18 PM   #109
Pavonis
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Re: TOS continues...

I wish the producers of this Continues series well, and hope they make some more. It does have the TOS essence.

I wonder, though, how long they can make it before their devotion to TOS starts constraining them. Is Chris Doohan's Scotty nothing more than a recreation of his father's character, or are the producers and actors willing to grow the character in ways that Jimmy Doohan and the original TOS writers didn't? And if they are willing to go where the TOS crew and producers didn't, how long before they lose the TOS essence? How much can they change before they're not recognizable as what they wanted to recreate?
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Old May 30 2013, 11:15 PM   #110
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Re: TOS continues...

Well for one thing they're not pumping out an episode every week. Bummer.

But if they get one or two episodes a year out then...okay.

'60s era television also wasn't really known for character development, at least not in the sense as it's done today. I think evolving characterization started with some of the early '70s shows like All In The Family and M*A*S*H. Those were still episodic, but the characters did gradually evolve.

In the late '70s we started to get shows like Dallas and Dynasty then Hill Street Blues, etc. They were essentially primetime soaps aired on a weekly basis rather than daily, but we started to see more obvious story arcs and ongoing plot lines. Today the most popular shows seem to be ones with story arcs, ongoing plot lines and evolving characters.

So if the STC folks want to stay authentic they might not evolve the characters. That said they could be tempted to push the envelope a bit by promoting some characters into new roles. They've already introduced a new character, Elise McKenna, and she's supposed to be a recurring regular (as I understand it) so that's an evolutionary change there. But to remain authentic I don't think they'll evolve the characters too much.
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Old May 31 2013, 12:13 AM   #111
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Re: TOS continues...

This episode was actually quite good.

It captured the feel of the original series, as it was made back then, perfectly.
From a nostalgic point of view it was perfect, going through all the motions of 1960s episodic TV-making.

Best bit, for me, was he:

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Old May 31 2013, 12:23 AM   #112
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Re: TOS continues...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Another difference is characterization. JJ's characters are paper thin caricatures. Kirk was essentially portrayed as a punk for example, an impulsive and often self-centred hothead. That isn't the Kirk that Shatner or Vic Mignogna portray. Their Kirk is decisive yet also reflective. Their Kirk is also seasoned and came by his position in a credible manner, by working his way up the ranks and proving himself every gruelling and tedious step of the way. The Kirk character is but one example of how the TOS universe supposedly works and it's quite different then how the JJverse seems to work: by arbitrariness and happenstance.

Abrams was out to make a summer block-buster, a popcorn flick. The STC folks were out to make a story suitable for episodic television and in the style that TOS was known for and endeared itself to countless fans.
They did a wonderful job of evoking the feel of the original. I got the impression that these actors were creating an homage to the performances of the original actors whereas in NuTrek, with the possible exception of McCoy and the odd Shatnerism, the actors have been given free reign. I don't think it's right or fair to say the characterisation is paper thin though - they are just playing the same characters in name only with completely different personalities.

I find Kim Stringer's Uhura (including her previous appearance) to be so much more dignified and professional than Zoe Saldana's. I love Saldana's performance but her character just lacks the level of professionalism that made Uhura stand out as an officer for me personally.

Converting episodes to the big screen did not work out that well and is why, IMO, the TNG movies were just not as fun as the TOS ones except possibly First Contact, which was nothing like an episode.

It's different strokes for different folks. This isn't competing with NuTrek... except possibly in the sexism stakes
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Old May 31 2013, 12:30 AM   #113
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

I checked this out yesterday on You Tube. I was very impressed. The production values are great. It really looks and feels like TOS.

I wasn't as enthused about the main cast, however by the end of the episode I was okay with them for the most part. It took a while to get into them. The guy playing McCoy seems the most unlike the original to me, though I did like his interplay with Kirk and Spock at the end, which felt more familiar. So while he perhaps is underplaying the original McCoy's mannerisms, there is some of the spirit there.

I thought the guy playing Kirk was a bit soft-spoken, but I got used to it after a while. I liked the new ship's counselor, which is a cool concept to introduce for a TOS fan series. I look forward to seeing how the crew deals with her, and how she deals with them. I also liked Chris Doohan playing Scotty. And I liked Uhura. The actress played her more youthful than I've seen her played before. I thought it was an interesting way to go. I also thought she was super cute. I wonder if that was her real singing voice?

I also really liked that they got the original Apollo and BSG's Apollo in the same episode! I didn't a double take when I first saw Bamber and hadn't really believed it was him until the credits. Hearing Marina Sirtis's voice was as the computer was also awesome. I like how the show is bridging TOS and TNG, but I hope it doesn't go too far with that. I don't want to see a holodeck on the Enterprise just yet. However if they found a way to slip the Borg in there I'm not going to complain.

This episode overall was a top notch production.
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Old May 31 2013, 12:33 AM   #114
Hober Mallow
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Re: TOS continues...

feek61 wrote: View Post
Let's face it; some people like these things and some don't. If you don't find it fresh by all means don't watch it. The overwhelming response has been positive but you can't please everyone.
I'm generalizing here, but it seems to me Trek fandom is divided into two camps: one group likes want Trek to provide an escape into a fantasy world, the other wants Trek to be relevant to and delve more deeply into *our* world. There is no right way to be a fan, but I tend to be of the latter persuasion, and I think that was more the original intent of those who made TOS (other than, that is, providing us with entertainment and themselves with a paycheck). That's why I have a hard time seeing these fan films being in the same spirit as the original, no matter how much they try to make it look and sound like it used to.

I mean no offense to anyone who likes these things, and I have no doubt a lot of love and passion has gone into making them. Just as with the Abrams' films, these fan productions just aren't my cup of tea.
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Old May 31 2013, 01:48 AM   #115
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

DarKush wrote: View Post
. . . I liked Uhura. The actress played her more youthful than I've seen her played before. I thought it was an interesting way to go. I also thought she was super cute. I wonder if that was her real singing voice?
Yes, it was her real singing voice. She sang it a cappella all day long for the rehearsals and then for all of the takes and sounded great. I had that song in my head for days afterwards!!!

It really sounds great with the music added.
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Old May 31 2013, 03:16 AM   #116
Warped9
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Re: TOS continues...

Let's face it, we will not see the like of TOS again simply because the times are different and those who made it are either not what they once were or are not with us any longer. No matter how good a fan production gets it cannot replace or be quite the same as the original.

That said as a fan production with no one to censor them they have the potential for a great deal of creative freedom. The first story they did was essentially a safe one to do. But what would really grab attention is if they got ambitious and tried for the kind of allegorical storytelling that TOS was known for. If they pulled it off it could rock.

It would still never replace the original, but it would be a genuine tribute.
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Old May 31 2013, 04:20 AM   #117
Hober Mallow
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Re: TOS continues...

I guess, to me, watching these fan productions is like trying to watch a KISS cover band.
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Old May 31 2013, 04:44 AM   #118
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Re: TOS continues...

Moved to Fan Productions
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Old May 31 2013, 05:20 AM   #119
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

I enjoyed the episode. I can't see why anyone would fear that Phase II, JJ, and Continues would produce 'too much' and we'd get sick of it. Most TV shows produce over 20 episodes a year. I don't know how many Continues will produce, but I'm betting it will be less than 4. Phase II always wants to produce more, but they seem to produce one a year. JJ produces one every 4 years. Plenty of time for writers to come up with something new and original... if they are so inclined.
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Old May 31 2013, 09:17 AM   #120
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Re: Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity"

feek61 wrote: View Post
DarKush wrote: View Post
. . . I liked Uhura. The actress played her more youthful than I've seen her played before. I thought it was an interesting way to go. I also thought she was super cute. I wonder if that was her real singing voice?
Yes, it was her real singing voice. She sang it a cappella all day long for the rehearsals and then for all of the takes and sounded great. I had that song in my head for days afterwards!!!

It really sounds great with the music added.
Thanks for letting me know. Please tell her for me that she has a great voice.
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