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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old May 30 2013, 02:54 AM   #1
Zameaze
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Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

OK, I'll start with an example from "Equinox." (I'd better save the subject of Tuvix for Guy Gardener or some one equally eloquent on the subject).

Janeway tortures Crewman Lessing to get intel on Ransom, against whom she has a personal vendetta. She confines Chakotay to his quarters for stopping her and for telling her that torture is wrong. She tells the aliens that if they'll stop attacking Voyager she'll deliver the Equinox to them. When Tuvok points out that will be certain death for the Equinox crew she threatens to confine him to quarters too.
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Old May 30 2013, 03:09 AM   #2
xBiophagex
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Yes, I agree. She's inconsistent, and disregards her morals when they don't suit her, and she doesn't hold the same aura of authority as Picard or Sisko.
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Old May 30 2013, 03:41 AM   #3
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Janeway didn't torture Lessing. She only intimidated the evil ensign. Noah was perfectly safe because she knew exactly how Chakotay was going to react. It was all a clever ploy. That's what command is. Know how your underlings are going to cope under pressure and and take that into account when planning your caper.

Later Kathy outright lied to those space beasties, there was no way in hell she was going to hand over even the worst Starfleet officers to be eaten by monsters.

LYING!

Kirk did that all the time and no one cared.

Are women not allowed to lie?

Meanwhile she had to stay in character when threatening Tuvok, because they didn't know if the space monsters chasing them were watching or/and listening through their shields.

You didn't understand that it was all a cunning ruse?

During the Sting in season 2 when they tricked Chakotay into kicking Tom off the ship, they didn't bring Chuckles into the fold, because no bugger trusted his truly awful, awful acting... There was a novel where after sitting though his one man performance of Hamlet, three crewmen took their own lives.

Chakotay couldn't even act that he was an 8472 acting at being himself without breaking character and blowing his undercover mission. That Archer woman Chakotay made out with was able to hide as a Cylon in plain sight for four years! He couldn't Donnie Brasco it for 15 minutes!

Meanwhile his feelings, get really hurt when you admit that he's been used as a cats paw stooge patsy, so it's best not to award him of the full facts post mission where, when and how he's used.

And his instincts for deception are SHIT!

As captain of the Val Jean, he had a Starfleet Security officer, an Obsidian Order officer, and a Section 31 officer working under him in a ship the size of a shoe box!

It's possible that Chakotay might have some sort of faceblindness or aspergers where he is so incapable of reading facial expressions, that anyone can lie to his face guilelessly in complete safety.
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Old May 30 2013, 03:51 AM   #4
eskyliz
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Oh come on! You're judging her whole career throughout the whole series on one episode when she did questionable things. Don't forget she was able to keep the ship going and the crew's morale high even though they were 75,000 lightyears away from earth. Her captaining was obviously going to have to be a little bit different when she was stranded in the delta.
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Old May 30 2013, 04:13 AM   #5
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

There's conflicting canon, but Voyager was (Sometimes) her first command. Before this Kathryn didn't have a captaining style or a reputation for being any sort of particular sort of captain. She was a science officer promoted out of Science because she's terrible at science. Failing upward. Her father was an admiral and I'm pretty sure she used to sleep with her former CO, Owen Paris, so it was a given that Kathryn is going to be an Admiral one day because of nepotism, the old school tie and a few greased secret handshakes.

Here's what I really don't understand Zameaze... Do you honestly think that Captain Ransom is a better Captain than Captain Janeway? I know that you need a maniac to catch a maniac but come one, puh-lease! Your claim is that Janeway sunk to such depths in bringing Ransom to justice, if she wasn't just picking on Rudy, that her next step should have been locking herself up for how she caught him?
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; May 30 2013 at 08:17 AM.
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Old May 30 2013, 07:54 AM   #6
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Garth of Izar is the worst Star Trek captain. He BLEW UP Marta, and also there was some genocide iirc.
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Old May 30 2013, 08:15 AM   #7
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Captain Tracy melted thousands of Space Communists with a stolen phaser.

Seriously one phaser killed 10 thousand savages who were employing medieval siege tactics in less than 15 minutes by one crazy unshaven bastard, but when Janeway, or some goldshirt under her shoots anybugger, their arm gets singed and the baddies drop whatever they were holding.

It's like the R&D boys said to them selves "This wide beam setting is a bad idea, do we really want our officers sent out there with hand guns that can make city blocks vanish?"
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Old May 30 2013, 11:13 AM   #8
F. King Daniel
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Zameaze wrote: View Post
OK, I'll start with an example from "Equinox." (I'd better save the subject of Tuvix for Guy Gardener or some one equally eloquent on the subject).

Janeway tortures Crewman Lessing to get intel on Ransom, against whom she has a personal vendetta. She confines Chakotay to his quarters for stopping her and for telling her that torture is wrong.
That's because Chakotay's a bitch.
She tells the aliens that if they'll stop attacking Voyager she'll deliver the Equinox to them. When Tuvok points out that will be certain death for the Equinox crew she threatens to confine him to quarters too.
She was furious, but wouldn't have actually done it.

See also Captain Archer, who tortured a space pirate in an airlock, bombed an unarmed Xindi colony to buy some time and later stole a random ship's warp core standing them in the Expanse...

But I'd say all that (excepting the Xindi bombing, where he could have sent a squad of MACOS to disable them) was justified, considering the circumstances.

Then there's what Sisko did when going after Eddington, attacking planets with bioweapons just because Eddington made a fool of him earlier.
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Old May 30 2013, 11:28 AM   #9
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

You want to talk about Archer?

One of his first first contacts, he transmits coordinates to Earth to some bug eyed baddies before he's completely finished saying hello to prove that they are friendly and doe eyed with no aggressive intentions, which is when the bug eyes started shooting at him, with probably plans to sell most of his crew into slavery who they didn't think would blend well into Friday night's casserole.

"Sigh"

Oh! OH! OH!

What about Harriman?

First day on the job and he kills Kirk.
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; May 30 2013 at 12:02 PM.
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Old May 30 2013, 11:51 AM   #10
F. King Daniel
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Oh, please. Kirk dies all the time.
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Old May 30 2013, 12:01 PM   #11
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

And Janeway doesn't?!

In Coda she died 15 times!

What about Picard in Rascals!? He... Well, I suppose "ACTING" Captain Riker is to blame, but he lost the Flagship to a handful of 70 year old Klingon relics, staffed by a dozen beancounting Ferengi!
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Old May 30 2013, 01:40 PM   #12
teacock
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Captain Riker is to blame
Yes. Yes.
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Old May 30 2013, 01:52 PM   #13
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Methinks the woman doth protest too much.

You are afraid and resent how much you're drawn to that monkey.
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Old May 30 2013, 02:19 PM   #14
Lance
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Oh! OH! OH!

What about Harriman?

First day on the job and he kills Kirk.
Of course, his defence at the court martial was that Kirk wasn't meant to die until Tuesday.
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Old May 30 2013, 02:41 PM   #15
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Re: Why Janeway is the Worst Star Trek Captain!

Sure Janeway is inconsistent, preachy about her morals yet perfectly willing to throw them aside when it suits her and borderline insane..... but at least she's competent. Jonathan Archer is not.
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