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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old May 29 2013, 12:51 PM   #91
ROBE
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

I don't think a black person would have automatically been viewed as a slave in the Elizabethan era. Slavery was illegal no matter what your colour in England during this time period. Later on in the late 18th century court cases confirmed this fact.

Last edited by ROBE; May 29 2013 at 01:11 PM.
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Old May 29 2013, 01:12 PM   #92
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

ROBE wrote: View Post
I don't think a black person would have automatically been viewed as a slave in the Elizabethan era. Historically that came later.
I tend to agree, but the Doctor's dismissive attitude of the possibility reeks of privileged. Sure, he's not human but he sure passes for a white guy real easy. The Doctor's attitude might be fine for Martha had she been taken from the Elizabethan period to the 21st century, but in reverse it is trying to impose a modern sensibility on the past. At least the show acknowledged the idea of racist attitudes toward Martha from her questions, whether or not they were realized, but to decry the work as racist is tendentious at best. Martha was treated as a social equal to everyone else within the story, so far as I can tell. That is unrealistic for the time, perhaps though not so much as having Will Smith being free to wander about indiscriminately as he does in' The Wild, Wild West', but to describe the work as pejoratively racist is ridiculous. Neither work is racist, per say, but they do try to ignore the racism of the periods in which they are set for the sensibilities of the audiences to which they play.
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Old May 29 2013, 01:50 PM   #93
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Ian and Barbara were taken as slaves in The Romans.

Any non Dalek the Daleks "saw" and didn't kill was technically a slave.

Ditto for the Master.

The Master and the Dalek's secretly enslaved the other all the time.
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Old May 29 2013, 02:04 PM   #94
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The Master and the Dalek's secretly enslaved the other all the time.
Yes, but they both had safe words, so it didn't really count.
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Old May 29 2013, 02:21 PM   #95
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Slugboy wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The Master and the Dalek's secretly enslaved the other all the time.
Yes, but they both had safe words, so it didn't really count.
Don't forget about the Master's Dalek 'bumps'! LOL
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Old May 29 2013, 02:49 PM   #96
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
ROBE wrote: View Post
I don't think a black person would have automatically been viewed as a slave in the Elizabethan era. Historically that came later.
I tend to agree, but the Doctor's dismissive attitude of the possibility reeks of privileged. Sure, he's not human but he sure passes for a white guy real easy. The Doctor's attitude might be fine for Martha had she been taken from the Elizabethan period to the 21st century, but in reverse it is trying to impose a modern sensibility on the past. At least the show acknowledged the idea of racist attitudes toward Martha from her questions, whether or not they were realized, but to decry the work as racist is tendentious at best. Martha was treated as a social equal to everyone else within the story, so far as I can tell. That is unrealistic for the time, perhaps though not so much as having Will Smith being free to wander about indiscriminately as he does in' The Wild, Wild West', but to describe the work as pejoratively racist is ridiculous. Neither work is racist, per say, but they do try to ignore the racism of the periods in which they are set for the sensibilities of the audiences to which they play.
Ah, but, "Walk around like you own the place" is The Doctor's M.O. That is the way he always approaches every situation and often works (and often doesn't, sure, but, that is his typical attitude and advice). He didn't tell her that because she's black and was concerned about prejudice, he told her that, because that's his typical response.
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Old May 29 2013, 05:10 PM   #97
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Ah, but, "Walk around like you own the place" is The Doctor's M.O. That is the way he always approaches every situation and often works (and often doesn't, sure, but, that is his typical attitude and advice). He didn't tell her that because she's black and was concerned about prejudice, he told her that, because that's his typical response.
I'd say it's especially in character for 10. I've been rewatching some of S3 and we can see he's similarly unconcerned about what Martha has to sacrifice in Human Nature/Family of Blood or about the feelings she has for him. And he seems to me dangerous to be around, I guess the Doctor always is but 10 seems quite ready to give a "sorry, so sorry" without missing a beat.
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Old May 29 2013, 05:35 PM   #98
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post
Sindatur wrote: View Post
Ah, but, "Walk around like you own the place" is The Doctor's M.O. That is the way he always approaches every situation and often works (and often doesn't, sure, but, that is his typical attitude and advice). He didn't tell her that because she's black and was concerned about prejudice, he told her that, because that's his typical response.
I'd say it's especially in character for 10. I've been rewatching some of S3 and we can see he's similarly unconcerned about what Martha has to sacrifice in Human Nature/Family of Blood or about the feelings she has for him. And he seems to me dangerous to be around, I guess the Doctor always is but 10 seems quite ready to give a "sorry, so sorry" without missing a beat.
Yea, people want equal treatment for the benefits, but, don't want the drawbacks that come with it.

Yes, Mickey was treated like an idiot by the Doctor, but, not because he's black, but, because he was Rose's boyfriend, but, his arc turned him into a great hero. Rory was treated as the exact same idiot because he was Amy's boyfriend/husband, and he got killed several times and was plastic, standing guard over Amy for 1000 years, seems like he got a bit more of a raw deal than Mickey did.

Yes, martha got a raw deal with her unrequited love for the Doctor, but, Donna got a much more raw deal when she left.

We Gay people want Same Sex Marriage, but, wait for the uproar when the working spouse gets treated exactly like a Straight husband in a divorce and has to pay a settlement or monthly payment to the non-working spouse.

Women want equal treatment, but, try telling your date you want to split the check on your first date and see how long it is before the second date (if ever)
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Old May 29 2013, 09:37 PM   #99
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Irvy wrote: View Post
Take Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS as an example. Yay, we have 3 black brothers running their own business. But can the actors act? Hell no, they were awful. They weren't awful because they were black, they were awful because they were bad actors.
Not the first time Doctor Who has had that problem.

A black actor was cast in role in the Pertwee story The Mutants and while its not a well regarded story, the abysmal performance of the actor in question doesn't pass without comment (though more for what's on the screen that actor's ethnicity).
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Old May 29 2013, 10:26 PM   #100
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

^^ Ah yes, "Cotton",
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Old May 29 2013, 10:43 PM   #101
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

DalekJim wrote: View Post
This is such bullshit. Why is society so precious about skin colour? I couldn't care less. Be proud about something you've achieved, not your race.
Here here.
Konata Izumi wrote: View Post
RTD era was racist as were a few classic stories but this article ignores all the actual cases? Black people were consistently portrayed as idiots under RTD.

That said it's terribly ageist as is 99% of other tv. If they can get that many kid actors there should be old ones too. Villains are fun but other roles please too.
The RTD era made a lot of people look like idiots, not just black people.

And there have been smart blacks in Dr. Who since the RTD era.

Although Mickey started off as a bumbling fool in the first series and a lot of the second, the later series Mickey and his parallel universe counterpart were quite smart and were tough and brave people. Martha Jones was far from an idiot, she's a doctor and brave. Tish and (what was it, Leo?) were a bit dumb, but Francine (Martha's mum) seemed quite smart and her dad was average intelligence. I seem to remember a black person from the 1940s dalek story for some reason, I think he was just average intelligence. Um lets see who else I remember.....ah, that man in the end of time with that "immortality gate". Okay he was quite stupid, same with his daughter, but they did manage to find the Master, even though it was probably actually the military who did all the work. :P
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Old May 29 2013, 11:54 PM   #102
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

DalekJim wrote: View Post
Oddly, I almost NEVER hear complaints that Chinese people aren't portrayed well in Doctor Who, despite them easily having the most legitimate case. We've had 2 black companions in the modern series. What the fuck more are people expecting!? What do the black community feel they're still owed? 3 black Doctors!? No other minority community whines this much, despite them getting FAR less exposure in the media. When was the last time you saw a Native American headline a blockbuster movie?
*Gasp, that's racist!* :P

I know right. All races are meant to be equal, which includes white people. Plus when the English are anti Scottish for example, that's considered racist, but when the Scottish are anti English, oh no, that's not racist. Here in England, in some places you're not allowed to put up the flag because it might offend some people. WHAT THE FUCK??? But if we say that same about I don't know, arabland's flag, oh no, that's racist, you can't do that. It works both ways for christs sake and as soon as people realise that, the sooner we can focus on more important issues like the economy.

I've always fancied having a oriental companion. If I ever got on the show, I'd have a Japanese companion for sure at some point.
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Old May 30 2013, 12:48 AM   #103
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

The Asian Child from the movie doesn't count?

Slugboy, when your lovers safe word is "Exterminate" don't assume that they have a jolly sense of humour.

No one thought that Ace and Shou Yuing were going to hook up in Battlefield?
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Old May 30 2013, 12:53 AM   #104
Konata Izumi
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Our public broadcasting company made a tv movie about our most famous war general. It was some crazy producer's idea, and was shot entirely in Kenya on a budget of 20000€ with a black actor as the Finnish war general. It seemed to piss off people to no end.

How's that for racist?!
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Old May 30 2013, 10:02 AM   #105
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Re: Doctor Who accused of racism

Green Lantern wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
This is such bullshit. Why is society so precious about skin colour? I couldn't care less. Be proud about something you've achieved, not your race.
Here here.
Konata Izumi wrote: View Post
RTD era was racist as were a few classic stories but this article ignores all the actual cases? Black people were consistently portrayed as idiots under RTD.

That said it's terribly ageist as is 99% of other tv. If they can get that many kid actors there should be old ones too. Villains are fun but other roles please too.
The RTD era made a lot of people look like idiots, not just black people.

And there have been smart blacks in Dr. Who since the RTD era.

Although Mickey started off as a bumbling fool in the first series and a lot of the second, the later series Mickey and his parallel universe counterpart were quite smart and were tough and brave people. Martha Jones was far from an idiot, she's a doctor and brave. Tish and (what was it, Leo?) were a bit dumb, but Francine (Martha's mum) seemed quite smart and her dad was average intelligence. I seem to remember a black person from the 1940s dalek story for some reason, I think he was just average intelligence. Um lets see who else I remember.....ah, that man in the end of time with that "immortality gate". Okay he was quite stupid, same with his daughter, but they did manage to find the Master, even though it was probably actually the military who did all the work. :P
Green Lantern wrote: View Post
DalekJim wrote: View Post
Oddly, I almost NEVER hear complaints that Chinese people aren't portrayed well in Doctor Who, despite them easily having the most legitimate case. We've had 2 black companions in the modern series. What the fuck more are people expecting!? What do the black community feel they're still owed? 3 black Doctors!? No other minority community whines this much, despite them getting FAR less exposure in the media. When was the last time you saw a Native American headline a blockbuster movie?
*Gasp, that's racist!* :P

I know right. All races are meant to be equal, which includes white people. Plus when the English are anti Scottish for example, that's considered racist, but when the Scottish are anti English, oh no, that's not racist. Here in England, in some places you're not allowed to put up the flag because it might offend some people. WHAT THE FUCK??? But if we say that same about I don't know, arabland's flag, oh no, that's racist, you can't do that. It works both ways for christs sake and as soon as people realise that, the sooner we can focus on more important issues like the economy.

I've always fancied having a oriental companion. If I ever got on the show, I'd have a Japanese companion for sure at some point.
Good god, you're young.
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