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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 28 2013, 02:49 AM   #391
The Keeper
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

I began warming up to the nuEnterprise thanks to ID. She is earning my respect. When she popped up from her death-dive I felt my heart swell for her in a way it never has for this design before. Damn you JJ!
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Old May 28 2013, 02:52 AM   #392
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

The Keeper wrote: View Post
I began warming up to the nuEnterprise thanks to ID. She is earning my respect. When she popped up from her death-dive I felt my heart swell for her in a way it never has for this design before. Damn you JJ!
It felt like this Enterprise had earned her stripes in this film. She earned being labeled 'NCC-1701'.
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Old May 28 2013, 04:08 AM   #393
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

trevanian wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
The Enterprise looks big, solid, majestic on screen, and that's the case even if you don't like the design itself. There's never been a starship that looks better presented in the history of cinema.

RAMA
I doubt there's an emoticon or even the words to convey the depths of my disbelief at that blanket statement.
I think works nicely.
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Old May 28 2013, 04:31 AM   #394
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

The Keeper wrote: View Post
I began warming up to the nuEnterprise thanks to ID. She is earning my respect. When she popped up from her death-dive I felt my heart swell for her in a way it never has for this design before. Damn you JJ!
For me, it was the pursuit scene in the first movie where Sulu brings the Enterprise out of warp just within the atmosphere of Titan. The crew working together, the swelling music and the awe-inspiring sight of the Enterprise rising up out of cover, simply gorgeous. Even something as simple as the anti collision lights blinking just so said to me: "This is the best that the old girl has ever looked."

Then, there was the callback to the Titan scene on Nibiru. She rose out of the ocean and the engines thrummed with whatever voodoo it is that makes the Enterprise move. It was as if the visuals, sound design and the score all stood atop the highest mountain and shouted in unison:

"Fuck yeah, Star Trek!"

I get such a charge seeing this crew and the Enterprise in their prime.
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Old May 28 2013, 07:26 AM   #395
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
The Enterprise looks big, solid, majestic on screen, and that's the case even if you don't like the design itself. There's never been a starship that looks better presented in the history of cinema.

RAMA
I doubt there's an emoticon or even the words to convey the depths of my disbelief at that blanket statement.
I think works nicely.
Eh, I like the design, myself, but there's no reason to take that statement for anything other than the unvarnished personal opinion that it is.
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Old May 28 2013, 02:05 PM   #396
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

M'Sharak wrote: View Post
Eh, I like the design, myself, but there's no reason to take that statement for anything other than the unvarnished personal opinion that it is.
Well I don't think anyone would. He did say "my disbelief" after all.



This discussion amuses me. Did anyone ever argue this passionately about the NSEA protector? I mean that thing totally doesn't match inside and out. Just look at that huge shuttle bay vs the exterior. Totally wouldn't fit in there, and everybody knows Galaxy Quest is totally the best Star Trek movie ever made.

Seriously though, I don't have a big problem with Enterprise being big. My only real concern there is why would such a large vessel be given to such a wet behind the ears officer? 'That's a lot of star ship for a young man.' He should get a frigate or a light cruiser first.

And, on a personal level I've always thought it was cooler when the Enterprise was a smaller, humbler, ship. It adds risk and heightens the peril factor. I preferred The Cage crew compliment to the series run. 200+ crew on board. I don't really know why, just personal preference.

That's really following the line of thinking for "what I would do if I was in charge" though. I think making the ship bigger and faster is a perfectly valid choice. Bigger or smaller, though, the one thing I enjoy in the JJ flicks is the sense of verisimilitude the interior and exterior have working together. Not since TWOK have I really felt like what happened outside the ship was effecting or relating to the inside.
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Old May 28 2013, 02:42 PM   #397
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

RAMA wrote: View Post
The Enterprise looks big, solid, majestic on screen, and that's the case even if you don't like the design itself. There's never been a starship that looks better presented in the history of cinema.

RAMA
I started out in 2009 not liking the design at all, but for the longest while now, I agree completely with this.
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Old May 28 2013, 07:25 PM   #398
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

OpenMaw wrote: View Post
Seriously though, I don't have a big problem with Enterprise being big. My only real concern there is why would such a large vessel be given to such a wet behind the ears officer? 'That's a lot of star ship for a young man.' He should get a frigate or a light cruiser first.
My impression is that the Enterprise IS a light cruiser. It's a big ship -- bigger than many of its predecessors to be sure -- but hardly the biggest in the fleet. I also got the impression that USS Vengeance wasn't a totally new class of ship, but an extensive modification of an existing class, up-armored and reinforced for heavy combat. The actual "Dreadnaught class" probably looked a bit more like the Excelsior or the Enterprise-E and lacking extensive automation systems would probably require a crew of four or five thousand.

And, on a personal level I've always thought it was cooler when the Enterprise was a smaller, humbler, ship. It adds risk and heightens the peril factor.
Funny, that didn't seem to work all that well on Voyager.
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Old May 28 2013, 09:13 PM   #399
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Where did you see any evidence that there are bigger ships, to give you this impression ?
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Old May 28 2013, 09:21 PM   #400
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Belz... wrote: View Post
Where did you see any evidence that there are bigger ships, to give you this impression ?
I just wonder why you'd call a 'Light Cruiser' a flagship like Pike did in the first film?
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Old May 28 2013, 09:24 PM   #401
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Belz... wrote: View Post
Where did you see any evidence that there are bigger ships, to give you this impression ?
USS Vengeance, for one. But also the existence of TOS fanon where the Enterprise wasn't the largest ship in THAT universe either; the three-nacelle Dreadnoughts (which are partially canon via TSFS bridge displays) were significantly larger, as was the Proxima class from "Star Trek Legacy".

Prior to that, there was the fact that the only other ships that accompanied Enterprise to Vulcan were all much older-looking Kelvin kitbashes and all similar size. It stood to reason that Enterprise was the odd man out in that group and therefore newer generations of starships were being built out of similar "modules" as the Enterprise, also being of roughly similar size if not slightly larger. So I figured the Abramsverse Proxmia class would be scaled accordingly, even if its actual design might be dramatically different.

Which, again, turned out to be a correct assumption vis a vis USS Vengeance.
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Old May 28 2013, 09:29 PM   #402
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

BillJ wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Where did you see any evidence that there are bigger ships, to give you this impression ?
I just wonder why you'd call a 'Light Cruiser' a flagship like Pike did in the first film?
Because flagships are not always or even usually the largest or most powerful ship in any particular fleet. Strictly speaking, the flagship of the U.S. 7th Fleet wouldn't even classify as a light cruiser and is half the size of the supercarriers under its command.
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Old May 28 2013, 09:32 PM   #403
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Where did you see any evidence that there are bigger ships, to give you this impression ?
I just wonder why you'd call a 'Light Cruiser' a flagship like Pike did in the first film?
Because flagships are not always or even usually the largest or most powerful ship in any particular fleet. Strictly speaking, the flagship of the U.S. 7th Fleet wouldn't even classify as a light cruiser and is half the size of the supercarriers under its command.
Yeah. But I don't really think that is the definition of flagship they were using.
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Old May 28 2013, 10:25 PM   #404
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
USS Vengeance, for one.
Brand new specialty ship aside, please.

But also the existence of TOS fanon where the Enterprise wasn't the largest ship in THAT universe either
Again, fanon is not canon. During TOS, it was implied that the Constitution was the most powerful ship the Federation had.

Prior to that, there was the fact that the only other ships that accompanied Enterprise to Vulcan were all much older-looking Kelvin kitbashes and all similar size. It stood to reason that Enterprise was the odd man out in that group and therefore newer generations of starships
Wait, you just turned a good premise into an unwarranted conclusion. The conclusion is: the Enterprise is the most modern starship available to the Federation, and probably the biggest, Vengeance aside.
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Old May 28 2013, 10:48 PM   #405
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Belz... wrote: View Post
During TOS, it was implied that the Constitution was the most powerful ship the Federation had.
No it wasn't. In fact, it's not even implied to be the most advanced in the fleet.

More to the point, even if it WAS the most powerful -- which TOS gives no indication whatsoever that this was even remotely the case -- that still doesn't imply "biggest."

Wait, you just turned a good premise into an unwarranted conclusion. The conclusion is: the Enterprise is the most modern starship available to the Federation, and probably the biggest...
"Is probably the biggest" doesn't follow from that conclusion, since modernity and largeness are mutually exclusive.

FYI, the most modern warship in the U.S. Navy right now is the Littoral Combat Ship, yet for entirely different reasons it is also by far the smallest.

My overall point is that Enterprise appears to be slightly above average in comparison to a series of much older vessels with a similar hull configuration; reasoning that other ships of her generation would be similarly enlarged, it stands to reason she is actually pretty average for her generation, or at least, for her particular design system.
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