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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.25%
A 161 21.52%
A- 101 13.50%
B+ 83 11.10%
B 58 7.75%
B- 27 3.61%
C+ 40 5.35%
C 38 5.08%
C- 25 3.34%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.74%
D- 10 1.34%
F 37 4.95%
Voters: 748. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 28 2013, 02:14 AM   #3766
KittyDuran
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Fortunately, the national numbers belie your experience in Jasper.
Well I saw it three more times this holiday weekend. Once in IMAX (a different IMAX and it was really LOUD) and twice in 2D. IMAX viewing was a little under half full and the 2D was nearly sold out both times. It's doing well and considering what the haul F&F6 took in, the numbers for STiD are impressive.
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Old May 28 2013, 02:20 AM   #3767
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Belz... wrote: View Post
Tough luck. It's in the new one, too !
Only as a rule for Kirk to break, as it should be.
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Old May 28 2013, 02:26 AM   #3768
Belz...
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Pfft... Kirk scoffs at your "rules". Rules can't stop AWESOME !
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Old May 28 2013, 02:34 AM   #3769
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I saw it today in front of a full house and still loved it. Though I still found the left-wing messages to be ridiculous. Also, I wish they would have let the Enterprise fire off one shot.

I'm still going to miss Pike. Bruce Greenwood really acted the hell out of that character.
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Old May 28 2013, 02:40 AM   #3770
BillJ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
I saw it today in front of a full house and still loved it. Though I still found the left-wing messages to be ridiculous. Also, I wish they would have let the Enterprise fire off one shot.
Not sure how the messages in this movie are "left-wing"? Is providing someone a fair trial really a "left-wing" concept?
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Old May 28 2013, 02:42 AM   #3771
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
I saw it today in front of a full house and still loved it. Though I still found the left-wing messages to be ridiculous. Also, I wish they would have let the Enterprise fire off one shot.

I'm still going to miss Pike. Bruce Greenwood really acted the hell out of that character.
What left wing messages? The only messages I found in the movie were "striking without being certain of your target is bad," "don't underestimate a criminal mind," "every criminal deserves a fair trial," "revenge is not a valid justification to kill," "instigating a war with another race under false pretenses is wrong," and "indiscriminately killing people in peacetime is a no-no."

Those aren't "left wing," those are sane.
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Old May 28 2013, 02:42 AM   #3772
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Not sure how the messages in this movie are "left-wing"? Is providing someone a fair trial really a "left-wing" concept?
Sadly, it appears to be - unless, of course, one is using criticism of drone strikes to attack the current Administration, in which case it's apparently just basic fairness.

If you don't like liberal and progressive ideas, it's best not to watch any version of Star Trek sober.
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Old May 28 2013, 02:43 AM   #3773
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I think that's actually very moderate, myself. And do we really need to bring politics into this ?
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Old May 28 2013, 02:46 AM   #3774
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Belz... wrote: View Post
I think that's actually very moderate, myself. And do we really need to bring politics into this ?
It is part of the movie. So it will cause some political side-discussions.
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Old May 28 2013, 03:44 AM   #3775
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

KittyDuran wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Fortunately, the national numbers belie your experience in Jasper.
Well I saw it three more times this holiday weekend. Once in IMAX (a different IMAX and it was really LOUD) and twice in 2D. IMAX viewing was a little under half full and the 2D was nearly sold out both times. It's doing well and considering what the haul F&F6 took in, the numbers for STiD are impressive.
We saw a 1:30 Imax show today, and the theater was full.

At $17.00 a ticket, that's pretty good.
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Old May 28 2013, 05:39 AM   #3776
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Tough luck. It's in the new one, too !
Only as a rule for Kirk to break, as it should be.
No kidding!
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Old May 28 2013, 05:42 AM   #3777
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

saddestmoon wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
If you've got the glass ball that lets you see they don't turn into a world full of Reavers or Breen or Imperial space nazis, that can justify intervention, assuming you are willing to play God with history. But revealing the giant metal bird to them at an impressionable time is monstrous.

Kirk might be condemning them to millions of years of religious strife, and I don't know that is better than letting life evolve anew there after the volcano plays out (assuming it really killed everyone, which sounds a little O-T-T ... is the volcano going to cause non-nuclear winter for the whole world?)
I disagree. You agree that the Prime Directive is ridiculous. I say, not because it's unenforceable, but because it's a silly principle. What does "destiny" mean anyway ? I agree you shouldn't make contact with non-warp-capable planets, but between letting all life on a world die, I think that was a minor offense. Calling it "monstrous" is a bloated hyperbole, at best.

Would you have let them die ? Not me.
I also agree: The PD (although a noble concept) is utterly ridiculous when it becomes dogma, if adhering to it means the obvious extinction of an alien race.

In principle: the PD is an ideal to strive for, but in reality (and in the situation Kirk and his crew were facing) the PD is not infallible: as in the case being discussed, adhering to it would have resulted in the destruction of an alien race. What would be the point in sparing an alien race from being 'influenced' by external contact, only to watch them be destroyed anyway?

Contentious issue I realize, but in the case of Into Darkness, saving the planet from destruction was the right thing to do - and few would argue differently in that instance.

'Monstrous' would have been observing and doing nothing, IMHO.
This is the dilemma at the heart of the prequel comic book Countdown Into Darkness.
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Old May 28 2013, 06:51 AM   #3778
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Belz... wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
I don't give a shit about the Prime Directive.
But... but.. it's the PRIME directive, Buzz !
Stimpy: So, uh...let's scout around.
Ren: You fool! We can't just wander around like eediots! We'd better see what the prime directive says about alien worlds.
Stimpy: (flips through the space cadet handbook) The prime directive! It says to 'scout around.'
Ren: Great! Let's go.
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Old May 28 2013, 09:15 AM   #3779
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

One thing I would have done with this film is to leave the story basically as it is, but do something that Nolan did in the Dark Knight, and that is to give nearly equal time to the various philosophies, so that we can see them all at play and decide for ourselves.

Int the Dark Knight, there is almost equal time getting us to understand the different philosophies of the characters and where thy stand on the morality scale.. and I'm talking about Batman/Bruce Wayne, Joker, Dent, Gordon. Each of these characters is given a moment in which their ideologies are placed at the forefront. They are each given equal footing.

In STiD, Section 31 is a very important element to the story, an yet for some reason, they are almost a passing reference tossed aside. Why not give the viewer some insight as to what they are about, a little more detail about how they have and can continue to protect the Federation. We might not ultimately agree with their vision for a more militarized Starfleet, but that doesn't mean that the writers can't make a good case for it. We don't agree with the Joker, necessarily, but his ideas feel ultimately convincing, or, close to it. that's why he's such a good adversary. I think Section 31's role could have been fleshed out and defended, and so could all of the other viewpoints.

Even with all the plotholes that would still remain, it would make this story one that peopel will remember fondly.

.
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Old May 28 2013, 10:01 AM   #3780
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

People are already remembering it fondly. Adding in extra dialogue to create some quasi-conflicted viewpoint turnaround would slow things down and drag them out pointlessly. How it is now works out just fine.
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