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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Star Trek Into Darkness.
Outstanding 5 33.33%
Above Average 4 26.67%
Average 6 40.00%
Below Average 0 0%
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Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 27 2013, 05:52 PM   #16
Christopher
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

^Ahh, okay. Interesting. As he says, that's pretty unusual for novelizations.
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Old May 27 2013, 05:57 PM   #17
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

Christopher wrote: View Post
^Ahh, okay. Interesting. As he says, that's pretty unusual for novelizations.
It's more than unusual. It's practically unheard-of.

I've written or edited over a dozen movie novelizations and the author never saw the movie first, aside from maybe an advance peek at trailer.
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Old May 27 2013, 07:04 PM   #18
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

The extra bits also include an explanation of Carol Marcus' accent, why McCoy didn't just draw blood from one of the other augments, a completely different "super ice cube" solution for the super volcano, extra info on how their torpedo switcheroo actually worked, and a wildly different take (in my opinion) of the private scene between A. Marcus and Kirk in the first half of the movie.

What we didn't get in the book was any new information on the aliens or new crew members*. I think a crew member is identified as Bradley and some of the Captains and ships are IDed in the emergency meeting at Starfleet HQ, but that's about it. Also still no reason given why Carol Marcus needed to change her clothes in a shuttle craft while speaking with Kirk.

I think Foster did a much better job with this novelization than the previous film's. It felt much more substantial and polished.


*Keenser is identified as a Roylan, but I couldn't remember if this information was given in the previous novelization or revealed here. Also unsure if it matches the name given in his origin story in the comic series either.
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Old May 27 2013, 07:36 PM   #19
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

Sto-Vo-Kory wrote: View Post
Also still no reason given why Carol Marcus needed to change her clothes in a shuttle craft while speaking with Kirk.
I felt the reason was clear enough in the film; she was changing into a flight suit and time was of the essence. Maybe not the best reason, but I understood what the reason was supposed to be.


*Keenser is identified as a Roylan, but I couldn't remember if this information was given in the previous novelization or revealed here. Also unsure if it matches the name given in his origin story in the comic series either.
The name of the Roylan species was first established in Star Trek Ongoing issue 14, which tells Keenser's origins in flashback.
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Old May 28 2013, 07:54 PM   #20
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

ATimson wrote: View Post
Kertrats47 wrote: View Post
Maybe a couple of lines of dialogue here and there, but not really. There were no extra "scenes" that I could discern, at any rate. Others, please feel free to correct me on this if I'm wrong.
More than a few extra lines of dialogue - for example, the novelization "explained" that Harrison really beamed up to a ship in orbit with the portable device, then went to Qo'noS. I noticed a number of other expansions as well, that seemed to be "made for the page" rather than cut material.

But yes, I don't remember there being any extra scenes.
There might not be any extra scenes, but this book does let every scene in the film breathe more. Each conversation has much more too it and therefore provides the reader with a richer and fuller story understanding than what you get in the very fast paced movie. I love the film, but Foster's work here shows us that there are times when a little more conversation in key plot-point scenes adds to the movie immensely. JJ could learn to let the characters have more time to talk and scenes breathe so the plot makes sense more easily. Star Trek works best when characters have time to interact with each other and talk.
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Old May 28 2013, 09:17 PM   #21
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
JJ could learn to let the characters have more time to talk and scenes breathe so the plot makes sense more easily. Star Trek works best when characters have time to interact with each other and talk.
I don't know. The more dialogue you present, the more gotcha moments that are there for the OCD crowd to tear apart.

In another conversation, I mentioned I thought that the movie might be better if we got more of Khan's background. But the downside is the more backstory you put out there presents the opportunity for more errors to be found.

Especially from this crowd.
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Old May 28 2013, 09:46 PM   #22
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

BillJ wrote: View Post
Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
JJ could learn to let the characters have more time to talk and scenes breathe so the plot makes sense more easily. Star Trek works best when characters have time to interact with each other and talk.
I don't know. The more dialogue you present, the more gotcha moments that are there for the OCD crowd to tear apart.

In another conversation, I mentioned I thought that the movie might be better if we got more of Khan's background. But the downside is the more backstory you put out there presents the opportunity for more errors to be found.

Especially from this crowd.
I see what you are saying, but every extended conversation that Foster put into this book does nothing but further illuminate the plot, characters and strengthen both as well. So I think that JJ could learn to let some scenes breathe and help both character development and plot all because the scenes were stretched out a bit
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Old May 28 2013, 09:53 PM   #23
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
JJ could learn to let the characters have more time to talk and scenes breathe so the plot makes sense more easily. Star Trek works best when characters have time to interact with each other and talk.
I don't know. The more dialogue you present, the more gotcha moments that are there for the OCD crowd to tear apart.

In another conversation, I mentioned I thought that the movie might be better if we got more of Khan's background. But the downside is the more backstory you put out there presents the opportunity for more errors to be found.

Especially from this crowd.
I see what you are saying, but every extended conversation that Foster put into this book does nothing but further illuminate the plot, characters and strengthen both as well. So I think that JJ could learn to let some scenes breathe and help both character development and plot all because the scenes were stretched out a bit
But what do you cut? Into Darkness already clocked in at over two hours. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you would have to cut something if you started extending scenes.
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Old May 29 2013, 12:18 AM   #24
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

BillJ wrote: View Post
Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

I don't know. The more dialogue you present, the more gotcha moments that are there for the OCD crowd to tear apart.

In another conversation, I mentioned I thought that the movie might be better if we got more of Khan's background. But the downside is the more backstory you put out there presents the opportunity for more errors to be found.

Especially from this crowd.
I see what you are saying, but every extended conversation that Foster put into this book does nothing but further illuminate the plot, characters and strengthen both as well. So I think that JJ could learn to let some scenes breathe and help both character development and plot all because the scenes were stretched out a bit
But what do you cut? Into Darkness already clocked in at over two hours. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you would have to cut something if you started extending scenes.
Everything involving Carol Marcus (just stick Spock in the shuttle torpedo scene), the stuff where Kirk is going back to the Academy, everything on Qo'nos (seriously, the Klingons did nothing but get beat worse than Worf, so there's no reason to keep them), and the whole "the Enterprise plummets through the atmosphere" thing. That would be a decent start.
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Old May 29 2013, 12:49 AM   #25
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

BillJ wrote: View Post
Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

I don't know. The more dialogue you present, the more gotcha moments that are there for the OCD crowd to tear apart.

In another conversation, I mentioned I thought that the movie might be better if we got more of Khan's background. But the downside is the more backstory you put out there presents the opportunity for more errors to be found.

Especially from this crowd.
I see what you are saying, but every extended conversation that Foster put into this book does nothing but further illuminate the plot, characters and strengthen both as well. So I think that JJ could learn to let some scenes breathe and help both character development and plot all because the scenes were stretched out a bit
But what do you cut? Into Darkness already clocked in at over two hours. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but you would have to cut something if you started extending scenes.
I would not say cut anything, nothing wrong with a 2.20 movie, we are use to them these days
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Old May 29 2013, 03:36 AM   #26
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

Christopher wrote: View Post
Sto-Vo-Kory wrote: View Post
Also still no reason given why Carol Marcus needed to change her clothes in a shuttle craft while speaking with Kirk.
I felt the reason was clear enough in the film; she was changing into a flight suit and time was of the essence. Maybe not the best reason, but I understood what the reason was supposed to be.
Which is silly, as she then asks him for the steadiest hands on the ship apparently, and so McCoy must then find a flightsuit and put it on himself.
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Old May 29 2013, 03:49 AM   #27
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

Like I said, not a very convincing reason, and it was certainly gratuitous. But there was at least an attempt to justify it, rather than it being completely random as some reviews have said.
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Old May 29 2013, 04:39 AM   #28
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

I agree that there's a number of bits that could be cut. The whole Kirk as Captain - academy - first officer - Captain again really added nothing to the movie and was essentially wasted time. As I said in another thread it felt like the writers response that Kirk was promoted too fast in the first one. However, when the whole arc takes about 5 minutes, what did it really accomplish? Have Pike express disappointment with Kirk, they go to the meeting, Pike dies and Marcus sends Kirk after Harrison. Plays out the same without the whole demotion bit. Same with Spock being assigned to the Bradbury. What exactly did that accomplish?

Wasn't really a fan of Carol Marcus. Was yet another set of daddy issues injected into a movie series that's already chock full of them. At least cut the connection with her and the admiral.

I know that a number of people will disagree with this but I'd also cut, or at least downplay, the Spock/Uhura relationship, II like seeing Uhura more involved in the plots but too much of her character is simply being Spock's girlfriend. The arguments, the making up, the abandoning her post when Spock's in trouble have Uhura being someon who's simple an appendage to another character instead of being one on her own. For a movie series that dreadfully short on women I'd like to see one who can hold her own against the males without being defined be her relationship to one of them.

Unfortunately, Star Trek is now a big, summer movie and there's not time or space for deeper characterization. We've got multi million dollar special effects sequences to show!

Just so you don't get the wrong idea. I enjoyed the movie for what it was worth. Hopefully the next reboot can take a slightly less frantic pace and let us get a bit more into the characters.
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Old May 29 2013, 04:59 AM   #29
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

[QUOTE=BillJ;8167165]
Enterpriserules wrote: View Post
I don't know. The more dialogue you present, the more gotcha moments that are there for the OCD crowd to tear apart.
You're presupposing that they couldn't write more dialogue without it being worthy of criticism. If they keep it tight (by which I mean well-executed, not breakneck) then there is no problem. Write good dialogue and people will enjoy it. And Orci/Kurtz are certainly capable of good dialogue. It's their plotting that is the weak spot.

Personally I'd rather a well-written movie that breathes a little more, but I understand that's not the way you usually make a blockbuster these days.
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Old May 29 2013, 06:33 AM   #30
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Re: ALT: Star Trek Into Darkness by A. D. Foster Review Thread (Spoile

I think Carol Marcus took her uniform off because if she left it on then her skirt would've rode up on her inside the flight suit.
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