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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 27 2013, 01:52 PM   #1231
TREK_GOD_1
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

Tommunist wrote: View Post
I find it odd in myself and others that fans become "armchair bean-counters" for multi-billion dollar conglomerates who will churn out hundreds of films a year, in which quality of storytelling is not the most important aspect of the film business. Nor do I feel crestfallen if a film that I enjoy is considered by some "a flop". What does matter to me is my friends, family and peers: I enjoy sharing movies, TV and music I enjoy with people. And of course, groups of like minded "internet pals" who I may not actually know, but can see they have the same passion and can articulate what they like and dislike about. Factions and camps of "pro" this or "anti" that degrade into name calling and insults can induce a chuckle maybe, but tire quickly. Marvel vs DC! Trek vs Wars! Pepsi vs Coke! Chevy vs Ford! Liberal vs Conservative! Meh... it gets old.
That is a good snapshot of this thread--or board when the new Trek series is a topic; some of this series' fans run from thread to thread, barking & attacking others for no other reason than others not seeing the value of this latest production.

Some act like hair-trigger stockholders trying to sway public opinion because they have fortunes invested in this.

I wonder if some have friends working for BR; I ask, because the defensive position held by some are so off the rails, that you can almost feel some posts laced with the kind of anger of someone personally involved. In the interest of full disclousure, I have a few friends at Paramount--some who worked on the Berman ST series, but they have no problem accepting personal observations or criticism. Over the long years, they never jumped into protection mode when hearing anything other than praise for the various series.

Their lives moved on no matter what friends (or co-workers) said.

The point here is that going overboard in defense of nuTrek--almost trying to will the film to be successful reads as some sort of fight against any form of criticism from within the base.

In some cases, the fight is certainly against old ST--particularly the original series. Kind of senseless, as there would be no nuTrek without it, but some "nuTrekkers" seem to despise the accepted belief that more than any ST produced since, none matched the influence or sustained cultural impact of the original series.

Kind of reminds me of the Star Wars prequels fans railing against the original trilogy.

I think that's why I can enjoy the Red Letter Media review for STiD but still disagree; they bring something to the table. Nothing that hasn't already been brought by the fine posters here though.
Red Letter Media...so correct about so many films. Love it.
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Old May 27 2013, 02:00 PM   #1232
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Tommunist wrote: View Post
I find it odd in myself and others that fans become "armchair bean-counters" for multi-billion dollar conglomerates who will churn out hundreds of films a year, in which quality of storytelling is not the most important aspect of the film business. Nor do I feel crestfallen if a film that I enjoy is considered by some "a flop". What does matter to me is my friends, family and peers: I enjoy sharing movies, TV and music I enjoy with people. And of course, groups of like minded "internet pals" who I may not actually know, but can see they have the same passion and can articulate what they like and dislike about. Factions and camps of "pro" this or "anti" that degrade into name calling and insults can induce a chuckle maybe, but tire quickly. Marvel vs DC! Trek vs Wars! Pepsi vs Coke! Chevy vs Ford! Liberal vs Conservative! Meh... it gets old.

That is a good snapshot of this thread--or board when the new Trek series is a topic; some of this series' fans run from thread to thread, barking & attacking others for no other reason than others not seeing the value of this latest production.

Some act like hair-trigger stockholders trying to sway public opinion because they have fortunes invested in this.


I wonder if some have friends working for BR; I ask, because the defensive position held by some are so off the rails, that you can almost feel some posts laced with the kind of anger of someone personally involved. In the interest of full disclousure, I have a few friends at Paramount--some who worked on the Berman ST series, but they have no problem accepting personal observations or criticism. Over the long years, they never jumped into protection mode when hearing anything other than praise for the various series.

Their lives moved on no matter what friends (or co-workers) said.


The point here is that going overboard in defense of nuTrek--almost trying to will the film to be successful reads as some sort of fight against any form of criticism from within the base.

Insome cases, the fight is certainly against old ST--particularly the original series. Kind of senseless, as there would be no nuTrek without it, but some "nuTrekkers" seem to despise the accepted belief that more than any ST produced since, none matched the influence or sustained cultural impact of the original series.


I think that's why I can enjoy the Red Letter Media review for STiD but still disagree; they bring something to the table. Nothing that hasn't already been brought by the fine posters here though.

Red Letter Media...so correct about so many films. Love it.
I think you're constructing a straw man. You could just as well substitute nuTrek for TOS and Bad Robot for Gene Roddenberry. As far as I see it, many of the most vociferous critics of this film (at least those who are fans) want it to fail, and this seems to be far more problematic than people wanting it to succeed.

I, for one, love everything about Star Trek—TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY (erm, ok, sometimes), ENT, and the reboots—but I find the fundamentalism of some devotees to be frustrating and a wee bit strange. It is, after all, a television show and a film franchise.
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Old May 27 2013, 02:30 PM   #1233
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

"Straw men" are what the fan critics excel at.

When I want to talk about the old show, there's a forum for that.

Last edited by Admiral Buzzkill; May 27 2013 at 03:02 PM.
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Old May 27 2013, 03:34 PM   #1234
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

throwback wrote: View Post

According to Box Office Mojo, the production budget for ST:ID was $190 million. Double that to $380 million. The film has made $285 million to date. By that simple standard, the film has not proven successful. (http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=startrek12.htm)

Most of those links are accounting BS, and means little. But as far as your statement is concerned, the movie has been out 11 DAYS in the US, and slightly longer worldwide, and you are accusing it of being a failure when it'll be playing till September?? Utter nonsense.

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Old May 27 2013, 03:50 PM   #1235
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

indranee wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
Flake wrote: View Post
ATM I think $230m North America and $200m Overseas for $430m total. The budget will definitely be cut down for the next one. First change I think would be to film with a 3D camera instead of converting from 2D and more sets indoors with greenscreen instead of outdoors.

They will also reduce the Overseas marketing budget because I think they went the extra mile overseas but have not got massive gains however perhaps the people they hooked with this movie will stick around for the next one. Overseas might benefit more if the release date is changed to March, April or late July/early August because of less competition.

I think they hoped for an $500-600m with this movie but it hasn't materialised, they do however know roughly what the ceiling is now and can budget appropriately.

A little less time between movies and 50th anniverary hoopla, and we'll hit $500 million plus for the next one. We won't know the final international tally till maybe late September.

RAMA
Also, the constant "dark, dark, DAAAAAARK" hoopla in the promo didn't help. People don't wanna see Star Trek with dark undertones in it during summer blockbuster season.

Thankfully, the movie itself is not JUST "dark". Plenty of humor, bright spots and charm.

Btw, I went to see it with a non-trekkie friend today who's been waiting to see it with me. She was totally unspoiled, kind of a Cumberbatch fan (not the obsessed kind). We went to the Udvar-Hazy IMAX theater. HUMONGOUS crowd. Literally thousands of people. All kinds of people. Little ones (even some babies, ugh, poor things!), big ones, medium ones. A good mix of the genders.

We'd reserved tix earlier so we were able to get into the 4:30 show. The show was sold out (they announced that) and we could literally TASTE the anticipation in the theater. This was my 2nd time (first time on IMAX). I'll be going tomorrow to either a 3D or a 2D with my brother and niece. Brother is an avowed non-Trekkie and niece is a dyed-in-the-wool Trekkie. I'll watch it one more time in 2D and then write a review on the grading thread.

Oh, funny story: On the way out today, I heard (right behind me) someone (I think a dad or an uncle or an older brother) ask a younger dude: So did you like it?

Younger dude: Yeah! It was really good!

Dad: See? Not every good movie has to be Transformers!

I kept a close eye on a dad and his young son next to me during the movie(he said he had never seen a STar Trek movie of any kind before), and for the first 20 minutes he fidgeted, after that, he couldn't take his eyes off the screen...the Klingon battle had him transfixed. I also overheard someone in the parking lot saying they didn't think the movie would be so epic and large scale.
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Old May 27 2013, 04:19 PM   #1236
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

I went and saw a regular 2D showing Sat., 3rd time to see the film here in Lex, KY. I would say theater was about 1/3rd full, everyone seemed to be having a good time, even heard an 8 or so year old girl say she like it alot, but liked Ironman better....oh well, it's a start.
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Old May 27 2013, 04:45 PM   #1237
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

if they have a sequel out three years from now in 2016, that's better than the four year gap but ideally a two year gap, like between most of the TOS and TNG movies would be better.
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Old May 27 2013, 04:49 PM   #1238
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Tommunist wrote: View Post
I find it odd in myself and others that fans become "armchair bean-counters" for multi-billion dollar conglomerates who will churn out hundreds of films a year, in which quality of storytelling is not the most important aspect of the film business. Nor do I feel crestfallen if a film that I enjoy is considered by some "a flop". What does matter to me is my friends, family and peers: I enjoy sharing movies, TV and music I enjoy with people. And of course, groups of like minded "internet pals" who I may not actually know, but can see they have the same passion and can articulate what they like and dislike about. Factions and camps of "pro" this or "anti" that degrade into name calling and insults can induce a chuckle maybe, but tire quickly. Marvel vs DC! Trek vs Wars! Pepsi vs Coke! Chevy vs Ford! Liberal vs Conservative! Meh... it gets old.
That is a good snapshot of this thread--or board when the new Trek series is a topic; some of this series' fans run from thread to thread, barking & attacking others for no other reason than others not seeing the value of this latest production.

Some act like hair-trigger stockholders trying to sway public opinion because they have fortunes invested in this.

I wonder if some have friends working for BR; I ask, because the defensive position held by some are so off the rails, that you can almost feel some posts laced with the kind of anger of someone personally involved. In the interest of full disclousure, I have a few friends at Paramount--some who worked on the Berman ST series, but they have no problem accepting personal observations or criticism. Over the long years, they never jumped into protection mode when hearing anything other than praise for the various series.

Their lives moved on no matter what friends (or co-workers) said.

The point here is that going overboard in defense of nuTrek--almost trying to will the film to be successful reads as some sort of fight against any form of criticism from within the base.

In some cases, the fight is certainly against old ST--particularly the original series. Kind of senseless, as there would be no nuTrek without it, but some "nuTrekkers" seem to despise the accepted belief that more than any ST produced since, none matched the influence or sustained cultural impact of the original series.
Ahhh the old straw man argument. I'm a fan of both TOS and nuTrek, so where do I fit in your little psychoanalysis of the Star Trek fan community? And frankly I've seen little to no bashing of TOS among fans of the new films, in fact I've seen quite the reverse; a respect and reverence for an old show that nuTrek borrows quite heavily from.

What I find odd is the needless bashing of fans of the new films. This may not be the Trek you want, but it is certainly playing well with a broader slice of the movie going public. Unfortunately there seems to be an "us four and no more" mentality among a small segment of fans... as if Star Trek should only be made for those who "get it" or truly understand "Gene's vision (whatever that means)." Apparently, nuTrek fans just don't understand what makes Star Trek work.

As has been stated here a few times by others who follow box office fairly closely, Paramount will certainly greenlight another nuTrek film as this one is performing quite well against stiff competition and will most certainly outgross Trek 2009 globally. I'm sure that must really grind your gears.

TREK_GOD_1 wrote: View Post
Kind of reminds me of the Star Wars prequels fans railing against the original trilogy.
This made me laugh out loud. There's been little if any railing against the OT by fans of the PT in the Star Wars fan community, the vast, vast amount of verbal abuse has been the reverse. New, or younger fans tend to be drawn toward the PT films and TV shows like the Clone Wars; to them these are the Star Wars films they grew up with (like my kids). Again, a fact older Star Wars curmudgeons have a hard time coping with.


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Old May 27 2013, 04:49 PM   #1239
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

Beyerstein wrote: View Post
if they have a sequel out three years from now in 2016, that's better than the four year gap but ideally a two year gap, like between most of the TOS and TNG movies would be better.
It'll be 2016 to take advantage of the 50th anniversary.
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Old May 27 2013, 04:50 PM   #1240
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

I really think a lot of people, including Paramount got really carried away after the success of the 2009 Star Trek. Some people may have thought that Trek now found it's mainstream niche and was suddenly accepted as cool to the casual moviegoer b/c of J.J. Abrams '09 hit movie. But after over 40 years of the dork/loser stigma assoicated with this franchise, one movie wasn't going to do away with that anymore then Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home did.

Like an aritle in Forbes said, the franchise has had it's momentary upswings where it connnects with a large audience mainstream audience, and Trek it was probably due for one in 2009 since the last big upswing was in 1996 with First Contact. But the stigma on Star Trek is a powerful thing that shouldn't be underestimated. This movie will be a decent hit, but it was silly for Paramount or anyone else to think it would some blockbuster, monster summer movie.
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Old May 27 2013, 04:56 PM   #1241
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

Joby wrote: View Post
This movie will be a decent hit, but it was silly for Paramount or anyone else to think it would some blockbuster, monster summer movie.
I don't think it was a silly expectation. STiD will likely end up at about $230-240 million domestic, probably making it one of the top five or six films of the summer in the domestic market. Better marketing hooks could boost Trek beyond that into the high 200s or low 300s.
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Old May 27 2013, 05:09 PM   #1242
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

I'm totally with The Transformed Man, I love both TOS (and TNG, etc.) and nuTrek so much... And I'm so grateful JJ didn't make those parody reboots you see a lot, but made two beautiful films... Remember the Dukes of Hazard film from 2005..? That could have easily been Star Trek (2009), 'cause let's face it: Star Trek is easy to parody...
Or a reboot that has hardly anything to do with the orginal, like the Miami Vice film... That film could have easily have gotten a different title... We could have had this cool space adventure called Star Trek, but without any ties to the original...

Last edited by Roald; May 27 2013 at 05:34 PM.
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Old May 27 2013, 05:28 PM   #1243
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

From BoxOffice.com on Twitter:

STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS: $47.0M 4-Day Weekend (est) / $155.83M Domestic Total / 3,907 Locations / $12,030 Location Avg. #StarTrekIntoDarkness
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Old May 27 2013, 05:29 PM   #1244
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

Pretty damned decent!
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Old May 27 2013, 05:41 PM   #1245
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Re: STID "tracking" for $85-90 million opening [U.S. box office]

Box Office Mojo just posted its 12-day estimate for STID and for comparison, the 12-day total for ST09 (only domestic):

ST09 = $155,536,131

STID = $155,827,000.

I am in a non-Trek family, but my 10 year-old said she'd actually see it with me, again. As we were going to the theater, my 13 year-old kept grumbling about how she was being dragged, and she wanted to see "Gatsby", instead. She walked out a little down on the movie (even though she seemed to be enjoying it), and to my astonishment, my wife, who only liked TVH and otherwise wants nothing at all to do with Trek, said to her, "Hon, I don't know what you mean, that was actually a very good movie." I couldn't believe my ears.
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