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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 141 19.13%
A 159 21.57%
A- 99 13.43%
B+ 82 11.13%
B 58 7.87%
B- 27 3.66%
C+ 40 5.43%
C 38 5.16%
C- 24 3.26%
D+ 11 1.49%
D 13 1.76%
D- 10 1.36%
F 35 4.75%
Voters: 737. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 26 2013, 11:12 PM   #3691
BillJ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

beamMe wrote: View Post
AnnLouise wrote: View Post
Hi - my husband and I just saw STID and I have an initial question - why did Kirk and Spock seem to not really know who Kahn was? I thought the Eugenics Wars still happened in this timeline (in some form or another). Wouldn't there be some information in the Enterprise computers if they input the name Kahn? Or did they just need a reason to bring in Nimoy for a cameo?

Thanks!
God knows what results they would get when they input Kahn. Or Khan for that matter.

I find it absolutely plausible that Kirk and co. wouldn't know who Khan was.
I'm wondering if Marcus had Starfleet database references to Khan wiped?
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Old May 26 2013, 11:14 PM   #3692
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

What Star Trek needs is not another makeover, it needs to return to the basics: science, politics, spirituality and morality
With the exception of morality, when was Star Trek: The Original Series about those things?
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Old May 26 2013, 11:16 PM   #3693
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
What Star Trek needs is ... to return to the basics: science, politics, spirituality and morality. Yes add in a bit more drama and action, yes have a decent pace,
science -
politics - check
spirituality -
morality - check
drama - check
action - check
pace - check

Five out of seven, not bad for STID.

The name's Khan, btw.
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Old May 26 2013, 11:26 PM   #3694
BillJ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

beamMe wrote: View Post
Ln X wrote: View Post
What Star Trek needs is ... to return to the basics: science, politics, spirituality and morality. Yes add in a bit more drama and action, yes have a decent pace,
science -
politics - check
spirituality -
morality - check
drama - check
action - check
pace - check

Five out of seven, not bad for STID.

The name's Khan, btw.
I'd say science is in there as well with cryogenics and radiation poisoning.
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Old May 26 2013, 11:27 PM   #3695
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
Finally saw Into Darkness and my verdict; it is a train wreck!

[. . . .]

With that all said I thought the movie was decent, I laughed in many places for how stupid it was and for all the character assassinations. But the bottom line is this; I would not buy this movie for DVD. Hell even Nemesis and Insurrection are better than this train wreck!
To clarify, you thought it was a decent movie, but a poor Star Trek movie? I'm just trying to wrap my head around your post because you seem to dislike the movie so much more than me and yet you gave it a C+ compared with my C-.
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Old May 26 2013, 11:36 PM   #3696
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

^^You can throw in a little spirituality...the volcano aliens.

Just like some scenes can take you out of a movie, some statements can take you out of a critique:

Ln X wrote: View Post
This movie was trying to be like the dozen or other epic movies out there: Transformers, the new Batman trilogy, LOTR, Superman Returns and so forth.
Who the heck is trying to be like Superman Returns? (Not Man of Steel, that's for sure....) If you'd name-dropped Spider-Man, Iron Man, or The Avengers, I wouldn't have blinked. But I don't think that other films trying to copy Superman Returns is a problem that we have to worry about....
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Old May 26 2013, 11:58 PM   #3697
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ln X wrote: View Post
It doesn't explain too well about Admiral Marcus' reasons for becoming this dictator, so he wants a war fine.
Actually I thought it explained it quite well. May be easier to catch on a second viewing.

Spock is way too emotional.
Did you see the first movie ?

I know TOS Kirk broke the rules from time to time, but those were under exceptional circumstances, yet Into Darkness just portrays Kirk as this hothead who recoils at following orders.
I don't agree. I think he did the right thing. Living aliens worshipping Enterprise or dead aliens. Which is best ?

Kahn was good, but boy did he make some dumb decisions! He beamed over those torpedoes without checking their contents! I mean if this really is the great masterful Kahn, who sees all and anticipates all, then he didn't cotton onto Spock's Trojan Horse until it was too late.
Isn't that typical of villains, though ? It's not like he could check the contents, anyway. Scotty and Carol tried before and couldn't surmise what was inside until they opened one.

But no, NuTrek Spock is illogically emotional.
You are aware that Vulcans have more emotions than humans, right ?

Finally using a tribble as the mechanism to revive Kirk is so embarrassing.
Mechanism ? The tribble was the guinea pig.

This is not reinventing Star Trek, instead this is killing the franchise because Star Trek cannot compete with superhero movies and (epic) origins movies which are big on action, bling and intense emotions but very light on a decent plot, morality and more natural character development.
Yeah but that's not really Trek's or Abram's fault, is it ? A sign of the times, I'm afraid.

And finally two more points: Starfleet feels too much like an army
I prefer that to Starfleet being explorers. Leave that to scientists and actual explorers, and protect the Federation, sirs.

What Star Trek needs is not another makeover, it needs to return to the basics
Please, no. The basics didn't work anymore. That's why Star Trek was on pause for all that time. And we're not out of the woods, yet.
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Old May 27 2013, 12:15 AM   #3698
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

beamMe wrote: View Post
AnnLouise wrote: View Post
Hi - my husband and I just saw STID and I have an initial question - why did Kirk and Spock seem to not really know who Kahn was? I thought the Eugenics Wars still happened in this timeline (in some form or another). Wouldn't there be some information in the Enterprise computers if they input the name Kahn? Or did they just need a reason to bring in Nimoy for a cameo?

Thanks!
God knows what results they would get when they input Kahn. Or Khan for that matter.

I find it absolutely plausible that Kirk and co. wouldn't know who Khan was.
I'd disagree only in the sense that if the Eugenics Wars still happened, then not knowing about Khan, especially for a member of Starfleet, would be like me not knowing who Stalin or Hitler were. Possible, but kind of odd. My husband also thought of Marcus wiping the record, but Khan was so (in)famous - nobody would know about him?
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Last edited by AnnLouise; May 27 2013 at 12:18 AM. Reason: added text
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Old May 27 2013, 12:25 AM   #3699
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

In Space Seed, Kirk and Spock were real vague on the details concerning Khan until going to the memory banks. Maybe the Eugenics Wars aren't taught in 23rd century schools because so few records survived?
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Old May 27 2013, 12:39 AM   #3700
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I think that they deliberately tried to stay light on the details of the Eugenics Wars in order to not reinvent them (contradicting TOS) or introduce an event that's supposed to have already happened in our time but didn't, confusing general audiences. The offscreen attempts to portray the Eugenics Wars as a secret conspiracy, while clearly contradictory of the exposition given in "Space Seed", would fit this timeline nicely.
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Old May 27 2013, 01:28 AM   #3701
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

It was a good movie for what it was. It was definitely not the best Trek. It was too chessy when Spock yells out "Khan!!" I don't why he was, it was Admiral Marcus who crippled the ship and caused the power loss. Khan had just taken control of the Vengeance. I just cant get used to that Beer factory engineering section. There is too much going on with it for a future space ship. Maybe theyre a starship/micro brewery.
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Old May 27 2013, 02:11 AM   #3702
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Belz... wrote: View Post
I don't agree. I think he did the right thing. Living aliens worshipping Enterprise or dead aliens. Which is best ?
If you've got the glass ball that lets you see they don't turn into a world full of Reavers or Breen or Imperial space nazis, that can justify intervention, assuming you are willing to play God with history. But revealing the giant metal bird to them at an impressionable time is monstrous.

Kirk might be condemning them to millions of years of religious strife, and I don't know that is better than letting life evolve anew there after the volcano plays out (assuming it really killed everyone, which sounds a little O-T-T ... is the volcano going to cause non-nuclear winter for the whole world?)

EDIT ADDON: I should acknowledge that I personally find TREK's prime directive ridiculous, utterly unenforceable with respect to outsiders (what good does it do if Starfleet can't interfere, when other humans and any other race can trot in and interfere with any of these worlds? None at all. And if Starfleet actually cordons off these systems, then that is a full-time operation with everything they have, just to keep these natives from getting poached by Ferengi.)

The real bullshit aspect to it is the cavalier way THIS Kirk dismisses it, like don't worry about it. So this is the GENIUS Kirk talks about in the first one? And yet he doesn't understand the potential consequences and certainly doesn't appear that he is going to be haunted by them either? If Kirk is all that intelligent in this timeline, then you shouldn't be playing him for a dummy.
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Old May 27 2013, 02:21 AM   #3703
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

RAMA wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
I hope there are interviews with the ILM guys soon. I'd love to know what else they changed.
FXGUIDE.com has already got article, interview & podcast up. I don't think CINEFEX comes out for another month. No mention of anything interesting FXwise in the icgmagazine.com piece.
They still publish Cinefex??
In 2000 the published told me he intended to close up shop by 2005, but I guess there is just way too much in ad revenues for them to give up.

After a long stretch of abstaining, I finally broke down and picked up a few used copies in the last couple of years and wasn't terribly impressed. There isn't enough traditional effects work to justify making-of pictures in most cases and they still don't go all nuts&bolts on how to do CG, so it seems to be lists of 'we used ___ to render.' That's only based on a few issues though.

Pretty far cry from the genuinely interesting coverage of THE RIGHT STUFF and ALTERED STATES, which seemed to inform as much about creative points of view as about tech stuff.
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Old May 27 2013, 02:25 AM   #3704
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

trevanian wrote: View Post
If you've got the glass ball that lets you see they don't turn into a world full of Reavers or Breen or Imperial space nazis, that can justify intervention, assuming you are willing to play God with history. But revealing the giant metal bird to them at an impressionable time is monstrous.

Kirk might be condemning them to millions of years of religious strife.
That's impossible to predict. The important thing is that they are alive. They are an intelligent species - I see no reason not to trust them to work things out eventually.

One question, though: At one point, Kirk and McCoy are running from the aliens and Kirk suddenly slaps a tapestry with alien-looking writing on it, on a tree. Why does he do this? To slow the aliens down?
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Old May 27 2013, 02:53 AM   #3705
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post

One question, though: At one point, Kirk and McCoy are running from the aliens and Kirk suddenly slaps a tapestry with alien-looking writing on it, on a tree. Why does he do this? To slow the aliens down?
According to the novel it was a religious scroll Kirk stole from a temple near the base of the volcano. He used it to lure them away from their village which was getting pulverized by volcanic debris.
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