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Old May 26 2013, 07:30 AM   #196
Bob The Skutter
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

MacLeod wrote: View Post
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SO because people will crack them, they shouldn't try.

That's like saying people will break into peoples home but the police shouldn't try to stop them.
No, more along the lines of they shouldn't beat guests as they come in to your B&B because there's burglaries been reported in the area.
No it isn't, piracy is a crime. It is only natural developers will want to implement measures to try and combat a loss to their revenue. Now we as a consumer might not always like them. And yes some people will crack them. But just because crime does and will happen doesn't mean that it should stop being fought.

You are a games developer, one console is trying to help you combat this by somesort of DRM measure. The same console is changing the way second hand games are handled so you as a developer will earn a share of the re-sale of a game.

Either with a first-time buyer or a re-sale you earn money. Sounds like a win to me. So the X1 might be more attractive to devlop for, do exclusives for.

Now of course some of the featues might put off some people from buying the console, the question is how big is that perentage? <1%, 1%, 10% etc...

We now accept DRM measures on PC games, and I suspect there where the same complaints when it was brought in for PC's as there is now about consoles. That isn't to say the measures they are bringing in are the right measures, would many of us object to having to enter a code like we do now on most PC games?

The primary issue should be around the 24hr log on issue. Perhaps the 24hr log on issue is to do with checking to make sure no one else is using your copy of the game? Though I think if you don't have the internet the console should work without the check, and perhaps only check if you've set the console up so that it is connected to the internet.
Yes, piracy is a crime they want to stop, but they're hitting legitimate customers to try and stop it. You're hurting the people who pay their way to get the people who don't. Back to what Valve said. They were launching Steam in Russia and were told there was no point, piracy is so rife in Russia no one will buy games from you. Russia is now their second biggest market because they run a good service with good prices and good support. Yes, piracy still happens but now games publishers are getting more money from Russia because they Valve treated their customers with respect.

Video piracy from Torrents has apparently taken a huge drop in every country a Netflix (like) service has emerged because of affordable, legal, easy access to lots of video, so again piracy is held back by giving people the choice to use a decent service.

They already have DRM measures on consoles. The firmware updates add extra security. And piracy for consoles isn't a new thing, there were copies for the NES, it's a big part of what killed the Dreamcast, it was so easy to pirate for it sold very few games, the Xbox 360 has been hacked for years. MS started banning people and then they came up with a hack that was harder to detect.

The choice here isn't let them continue and lose revenue or do something and make more money, there are hardcore pirates who are people who spend very little on buying in the first place and will continue to pirate and hack everything they can. There's no extra money to be made there and limiting their access really means nothing to them.

There are people who pirate because they can't afford what they want to play so they might go off and buy secondhand, which you're now effectively making more expensive, so not helpful to these people and may drive them away from the platform and lose what little money they were able to spend.

And there are people who pirate to try before they buy or because they don't have access legitimately. Sony have made a good choice here in allowing time limited access to full games via the cloud. Giving them a decent service where they can try before they buy and get access to games from all over the world at the same time may lead to more revenue from these people but this isn't about locking them in to an always on, totally locked system.

Harming the experience of the people who pay is not a good system. They realised that with the anti-piracy ads on DVD, they're now skipable and say thanks instead of calling you scum. Music industry has received a bump in sales since switching to MP3 from DRM'd systems because people who buy legitimately can find them easily and aren't restricted in their use. And streaming services mean they can find what they want legitimately.

Basically treating your paying customers like scum alienates people and pushes them away. Fight piracy by trying to take on the chipmakers, the forums that share how to do it, the websites and whole industry behind pirating things, and by realising that there are gaps in the market that piracy is filling and finding a way to fill that gap not by attacking those who want to buy your products.
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Old May 26 2013, 07:58 AM   #197
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

Rather then add to that wall of text post I'll say my biggest problems are really the fact that borrowing from friends won't be allowed. It has lead to me buying games in the past or meant I've been able to play a few games that came out at the same time when I could only afford to buy one and vice versa for friends.

The 24 hour log in thing. I've had one or two occasions when my internet has gone down for a few days, I've know people who's connections have gone down for weeks.

Trading in will either mean less money for trade ins or higher costs on secondhand games. As neither are great as it is that means gaming is a more expensive hobby. I rarely buy secondhand games but I do sell so I can afford to buy new games. If game prices go up, as they undoubtedly will, I will be able to afford to play fewer games, combined with my first reason in this post you can see the problem.

Also 500gb isn't a lot of hard drive space when you have mandatory 20-50gb installs for games, saves which seem to be getting bigger and bigger, downloads, music/film/apps/updates etc to install too.
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Old May 26 2013, 09:10 AM   #198
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

I agree about the HD, if it's going to install to the HD. I would have thought a 2TB HD would be needed. As you say with DLC, save files, if they want it to be a media centre/function perhaps as some sort of DVR that sapce will soon disappear,
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Old May 26 2013, 09:34 AM   #199
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

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Old May 26 2013, 02:05 PM   #200
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

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Found this re: PS4 and patent for blocking used games

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/sony-pat...-games-6401992

Now of ocurse as the article says it doesn't mean the patent will be accept or even used, but Sony are looking along the same lines as MS.
According to this Eurogamer article, that patent wasn't intended for use with PS4.

Interestingly, I also spoke to a Sony source elsewhere at the event this evening who told me that the anti used-game patent discovered last month was actually nothing to do with PlayStation 4 at all.
That's by no means definitive, we have no idea who that source is, but it gives me hope. Everything else Sony said to the press in the wake of the PS4 reveal suggests that they're going to allow publishers to decide what to do about used games, not the uniform restriction that MS have decided upon.

The reason why I'm suspicious of Sony is that EA publicly dropped their online pass program just a week before the XBO reveal, and they signalled that they're scaling back their plans for the Wii U around the same time. Maybe that's all coincidental, but it does leave the impression that Sony and MS have decided to jump off the cliff together.
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Old May 26 2013, 02:15 PM   #201
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

Ah but they haven't dropped support for the Wii U. They admitted last week they do have some games in development for it. http://www.computerandvideogames.com...ii-u-says-cfo/
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Old May 26 2013, 06:18 PM   #202
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

Seems EA thinks sitting on the couch with a joypad is a more realistic method than standing swing a virtual golf stick at a virtual ball.

Oh well their loss, although it is EA, so i suspect a Wii-U version to become avalible soon after the two main consoles once Nintendo allow them to stick £100 of microtransactions on their eStore for said game. lol
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Old May 26 2013, 09:51 PM   #203
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

MacLeod wrote: View Post
I agree about the HD, if it's going to install to the HD. I would have thought a 2TB HD would be needed. As you say with DLC, save files, if they want it to be a media centre/function perhaps as some sort of DVR that sapce will soon disappear,
Nah. I bet this is laying the groundwork for some bullshit pay-for-play cloud service. Not enough room? Buy cloud space for an additional $30 per month so you can play ALL the games you want. Mark my words - it's coming.
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Old May 26 2013, 10:17 PM   #204
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

MacLeod wrote: View Post
I agree about the HD, if it's going to install to the HD. I would have thought a 2TB HD would be needed. As you say with DLC, save files, if they want it to be a media centre/function perhaps as some sort of DVR that sapce will soon disappear,
Unlike the 360, it'll support USB hard drives, so upgrading later will be fairly painless.
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Old May 26 2013, 10:42 PM   #205
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

Bob The Skutter wrote: View Post
The other thing in all this, of course, is that game prices will increase with the release of a new system. If prices went down on the understanding that secondhand games would no longer be available then there might be something worthwhile in this idea. But they won't do that.
More than anything else, this is the information I'm waiting on.

IF PS4/XBone game prices decrease as a result of eliminating the second-hand games market and putting a big dent in piracy and games go on sale a lot more than they do now (like Steam), then this is cool with me. If Microsoft and Sony are planning on having more or less the same game pricing as the 360/PS3 did with all these additional restrictions in place, they can go fuck themselves and I'm proceeding to beef up my PC.
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Old May 26 2013, 10:59 PM   #206
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

I'd be very surprised if any of these companies would reduce prices of games to give the incresed profits back to the customer.

It is anathema to any company whose prime reason for existence is to maximize profits so i don't expect any significant (rather none at all) price decreases
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Old May 27 2013, 01:29 AM   #207
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

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I'd be very surprised if any of these companies would reduce prices of games to give the incresed profits back to the customer.

It is anathema to any company whose prime reason for existence is to maximize profits so i don't expect any significant (rather none at all) price decreases
You're probably right about this. If this turns out to be the case, this lifelong console gamer is putting his money where his mouth is (something most people can't seem to do and will proceed to bitch about it instead) and not supporting this B.S. in any way.
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Old May 27 2013, 04:15 AM   #208
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
I agree about the HD, if it's going to install to the HD. I would have thought a 2TB HD would be needed. As you say with DLC, save files, if they want it to be a media centre/function perhaps as some sort of DVR that sapce will soon disappear,
Nah. I bet this is laying the groundwork for some bullshit pay-for-play cloud service. Not enough room? Buy cloud space for an additional $30 per month so you can play ALL the games you want. Mark my words - it's coming.
If Microsoft handles their cloud anything like Playstation handles theirs, it won't be all that. The only thing that's stored in the cloud is a list of software you have the right to download. A transactions list. I have about 30 games on my PS3 HDD right now. I have rights to about 100 more that I can download at any time. Same thing with iTunes.
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Old May 27 2013, 04:41 AM   #209
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

Rumor: PS4 Has Used Game DRM

http://kotaku.com/rumor-the-ps4-has-...-drm-509969406
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Old May 27 2013, 08:44 AM   #210
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Re: Offiical XBox (3) Launch Thread

Sheep wrote: View Post
FPAlpha wrote: View Post
I'd be very surprised if any of these companies would reduce prices of games to give the incresed profits back to the customer.

It is anathema to any company whose prime reason for existence is to maximize profits so i don't expect any significant (rather none at all) price decreases
You're probably right about this. If this turns out to be the case, this lifelong console gamer is putting his money where his mouth is (something most people can't seem to do and will proceed to bitch about it instead) and not supporting this B.S. in any way.
What i said relates to all companies.. they won't give up profits if they don't have to. At best they'll do it for marketing purposes (and then make a big public deal about it so everyone notices) or simple market competition forces them to lower some profit to remain competitive.

With console gaming the market is pretty limited.. it's either Sony or MS and i guess neither of them will deviate much. Currently MS is in the spotlight due to the most recent unveal and a bit more information that got negative reaction. So far Sony has been pretty reserved in their information and i'd bet everything i have that Sony is paying very close attention to what MS does and how the public reacts.

However time is running out.. E3 is around the corner and production/design has to be nearly finished right now to allow enough production time and internation shipping so i guess Sony's hand will be forced soon. E3 will be very informative i believe, especially on the issue of used games.
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