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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 26 2013, 03:46 PM   #3676
Belz...
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Claudia wrote: View Post
People criticize Spock's death in TWOK because it got rendered meaningless with his return - talk about meaningless sacrifice here with Kirk.
Spock's death in TWOK was meant to be a price that Kirk had to pay in order to A) survive Khan and B) understand that he can't always cheat death.

In Into Darkness, it was a way by which Kirk would grow to understand the responsibilities of being captain. The two scenes don't have the same impact, but in both cases, Kirk has to survive in order for them to work.

The Stig wrote: View Post
This is a massive thread with hundreds if not thousands of posts
Three thousand seven hundred and seventy-six at this time. </data>
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Old May 26 2013, 04:03 PM   #3677
The Old Building & Loan
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Belz... wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
deva vu
Nitpick: that's "déjà vu".
Typo fixed but for the accents, which I'm not bothering with.

My prediction for the next film: time travel.
I hope not. I hate time travel, and we've had it in the last movie again. At least last time it was kinda clever.
I'm talking this crew traveling back to the 20th/21st century...story-wise, a different animal from how time travel was used in the '09 film.
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Old May 26 2013, 04:17 PM   #3678
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Still, they've done that twice before. And I still hate time travel.
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Old May 26 2013, 04:40 PM   #3679
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

^Keep in mind that it's more a prediction than a preference on my part. I'm just trying to get into these guys' heads and think of what they'd want to do next....

On an unrelated note, I've seen a lot of people say that security guards should have been beamed down in the climax instead of Uhura....Dramatically speaking, it could only have been Uhura...she was the only one who could talk Spock down from his rage, and it's a pretty common conceit in these types of series that you never use a nameless extra to do a job that one of your established characters can do. I have zero issues with how they've used the new Uhura in this series so far.

All of the regulars were pretty well-used in this film except maybe Chekov. Urban's McCoy is highly entertaining, but I don't know if we'll ever quite get the classic Kirk/Spock/McCoy triangle in this series, as Kirk and Spock have more of a comedic love/hate relationship in this version.
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Old May 26 2013, 05:01 PM   #3680
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
it's a pretty common conceit in these types of series that you never use a nameless extra to do a job that one of your established characters can do.
Which makes sense narratively, but clashes with reality, where the exact opposite is the norm.
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Old May 26 2013, 05:05 PM   #3681
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Claudia wrote: View Post
Let the characters grow and shine
They did!
Who did grow in this movie? Kirk's the only one who got a hint of character development, but everyone else?
Chekov went from yellow uniform to red uniform! That's gotta count!
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Old May 26 2013, 05:08 PM   #3682
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Claudia wrote: View Post
They did!
Who did grow in this movie? Kirk's the only one who got a hint of character development, but everyone else?
Chekov went from yellow uniform to red uniform! That's gotta count!
So he got the same amount of growth as he got in two seasons and six movies in TOS.
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Old May 26 2013, 05:23 PM   #3683
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Chekov went from yellow uniform to red uniform! That's gotta count!
Isn't that a downgrade ?
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Old May 26 2013, 05:42 PM   #3684
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Belz... wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
it's a pretty common conceit in these types of series that you never use a nameless extra to do a job that one of your established characters can do.
Which makes sense narratively, but clashes with reality, where the exact opposite is the norm.
It's Star Trek. At what point does reality hold the upper hand?
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Old May 26 2013, 06:07 PM   #3685
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

As I reflect on the film, I think that having Chekov sub for Scotty actually highlighted a problem with his character in the ensemble...we don't really need two characters to provide manic physical comedy relief. They need to find a new angle for Chekov.

Belz... wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
it's a pretty common conceit in these types of series that you never use a nameless extra to do a job that one of your established characters can do.
Which makes sense narratively, but clashes with reality, where the exact opposite is the norm.
You want reality, you might be watching the wrong movies.... Even nuBSG, with its grittier and more naturalistic approach, couldn't escape the inconvenient dictates of drama...hence the "SuperStarbuck" phenomenon.
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Old May 26 2013, 06:09 PM   #3686
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I was just illustrating the contrast.

They need to find a new angle for Chekov.
Maybe he can be like the old Chekov, always saying everything comes from Russia and looking like a teen idol.
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Old May 26 2013, 07:46 PM   #3687
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

trevanian wrote: View Post
beamMe wrote: View Post
I hope there are interviews with the ILM guys soon. I'd love to know what else they changed.
FXGUIDE.com has already got article, interview & podcast up. I don't think CINEFEX comes out for another month. No mention of anything interesting FXwise in the icgmagazine.com piece.
They still publish Cinefex??
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Old May 26 2013, 11:02 PM   #3688
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Hi - my husband and I just saw STID and I have an initial question - why did Kirk and Spock seem to not really know who Kahn was? I thought the Eugenics Wars still happened in this timeline (in some form or another). Wouldn't there be some information in the Enterprise computers if they input the name Kahn? Or did they just need a reason to bring in Nimoy for a cameo?


You can't really tell me that you felt touched by Kirk's death - especially knowing that he wouldn't stay dead, can you? The hint with the Tribble early on in the movie was quite heavy-handed, after all...

We did feel a different type of sadness. Seeing Kirk ask how not to feel, and confess that he's afraid...for these characters, it worked for me. It was less a loss of a long friendship, than seeing a great friendship ended before it's time.

Thanks!
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Old May 26 2013, 11:08 PM   #3689
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

AnnLouise wrote: View Post
Hi - my husband and I just saw STID and I have an initial question - why did Kirk and Spock seem to not really know who Kahn was? I thought the Eugenics Wars still happened in this timeline (in some form or another). Wouldn't there be some information in the Enterprise computers if they input the name Kahn? Or did they just need a reason to bring in Nimoy for a cameo?

Thanks!
God knows what results they would get when they input Kahn. Or Khan for that matter.

I find it absolutely plausible that Kirk and co. wouldn't know who Khan was.
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Old May 26 2013, 11:08 PM   #3690
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Finally saw Into Darkness and my verdict; it is a train wreck! A steaming pile of boiling emotions, illogical actions and threadbare plots.

It doesn't explain too well about Admiral Marcus' reasons for becoming this dictator, so he wants a war fine. But at best he has authority of ships in the Sol system, what about the rest of the Federation?

Spock is way too emotional. The Uhura/Spock romance still doesn't gel and Spock even contradicts his own logical reasons at times.

As for Kirk... The first quarter of the movie kind of destroyed the very reasons why Kirk was promoted to captain in the first movie. I know TOS Kirk broke the rules from time to time, but those were under exceptional circumstances, yet Into Darkness just portrays Kirk as this hothead who recoils at following orders.

Kahn was good, but boy did he make some dumb decisions! He beamed over those torpedoes without checking their contents! I mean if this really is the great masterful Kahn, who sees all and anticipates all, then he didn't cotton onto Spock's Trojan Horse until it was too late.

Kirk's 'death' scene was good but it was ruined by Spock crying and then shouting 'Kahhnnnn!!!' That was really embarrassing! It would have worked much better if Spock took it stoically like all Vulcans did, it would have worked ten times as well if all you could see was the pain in Spock's eyes but that would be the extent of his outward reaction to the death of Kirk. Hell Odo didn't cry once, but you could always tell when that character was in pain. But no, NuTrek Spock is illogically emotional.

While there are references to the first movie NuTrek movie, this movie doesn't come close to being as good as JJ's first Star Trek film. It needed a solid plot, but there were so many holes, inconsistencies and question marks that the plot didn't add up. It was muddled. I mean why aren't the Klingons at war with Starfleet? Didn't humans attack those Klingons on Qo'noS? Also those Klingons looked hideous! Where was the good old TNG and DS9 Klingon make-up? Finally using a tribble as the mechanism to revive Kirk is so embarrassing.

Lastly Into Darkness felt like a very watered-down version of Star Trek. It couldn't go two minutes without some action scene, it couldn't get (or dare to be) a bit ponderous and contemplative without some new threat popping up. Finally this movie tries to give a sense of an 'epic' feel but it doesn't work with Star Trek. This movie was trying to be like the dozen or other epic movies out there: Transformers, the new Batman trilogy, LOTR, Superman Returns and so forth.

This is not reinventing Star Trek, instead this is killing the franchise because Star Trek cannot compete with superhero movies and (epic) origins movies which are big on action, bling and intense emotions but very light on a decent plot, morality and more natural character development.

Again that's the problem with origin movies, you rehash a franchise with more modern themes and 'darkness', and you perhaps get a sequel to but when it comes down to it, how has it really developed that particular franchise? The answer it hasn't, all it has done is kept that franchise in the mainstream for a few months while not really adding anything new or substantial. I fear the same as happened to Star Trek now. It's been diluted to the point where the franchise is no different to the other hundred or so action movies out there competing for box office success. Nothing new has been offered and it's no longer a reboot, it's a dilution of a franchise to the point where it is blurred, generic and unrecognisable.

I wouldn't even say this is what the audience wants because new movies of this calibre are now virtually the same: intense action scenes, a few heart-throbbing moments and a very thin story with not much going for it. It's what I suspected anyway, once you take NuTrek's bling there is not much going for it.

And finally two more points: Starfleet feels too much like an army and those caps really suck! It looks like something the North Korean army wears for God sake! Finally in that ceremony scene for captain Pike, I swear to God there was an American flag flying in the background.

With that all said I thought the movie was decent, I laughed in many places for how stupid it was and for all the character assassinations. But the bottom line is this; I would not buy this movie for DVD. Hell even Nemesis and Insurrection are better than this train wreck!

What Star Trek needs is not another makeover, it needs to return to the basics: science, politics, spirituality and morality. Yes add in a bit more drama and action, yes have a decent pace, but each movie and (hopefully) new episode needs to have a lot more food for thought. Even with the bad Trek movies and episodes you always stopped to think about what was going on even if that alien race was cheesy or things didn't quite gel.
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