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Old May 25 2013, 09:03 PM   #256
Nerys Myk
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
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So you credit Abrams with keeping the Star Trek franchise alive.
It wasn't dead to begin with.
It was in a coma and on life support.
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Old May 25 2013, 09:04 PM   #257
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
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Did they "save" the franchise? Likely no more than Abrams did.
They continued it.
Which, compared to it not continuing, sounds like saving to me.

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I understood and accepted a reboot was likely and possible. I can see how a reboot done in a particular way could appeal to me. But in this case (in my opinion) Abrams did everything wrong as did his writers.
Fair enough.

It wasn't dead to begin with.
We've been through this before: dead means no more movies and series. Who cares about fans like me who watch their DVDs ?
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Old May 25 2013, 09:14 PM   #258
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Belz... wrote: View Post
Who cares about fans like me who watch their DVDs ?
Whoever is making money off the sale of those DVD's and other merchandise. If money continues to come in then there's evidently at least a pulse.

Belz... wrote: View Post
We've been through this before: dead means no more movies and series.
In your opinion.
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Old May 25 2013, 09:23 PM   #259
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

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In your opinion.
I don't think so. I seriously doubt that the OP is asking us whether, without Abrams, toys would still be sold and fan fiction written.
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Old May 25 2013, 09:29 PM   #260
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

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WNMHGB saved the franchise in the sense that without it Star Trek would have been a missed opportunity because "The Cage" itself couldn't close the sale.

TAS didn't save the franchise because it didn't seem to have much of an impact other than further whetting fans' appetites for live-action Star Trek.

TMP and TWOK mightn't have saved the franchise, but they certainly gave it a kick in the pants.

TNG didn't save the franchise but certainly did expand it. Ditto with DS9. I'd argue that VOY and ENT started to hurt the franchise at least in the general public perception if not in the eyes of those shows' fans. Except for maybe FC I'd argue the TNG films weren't helping the franchise.
So nothing ever "saved" the franchise, even if they resurrected it from obscurity and made it commercially viable (TWOK, TNG, Abrams), except the second episode, when there was no franchise to speak of. Perfectly logical.
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Old May 25 2013, 09:31 PM   #261
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

New and pre-existing tie-in merchandise was still making money and a lot of interest still existed (as evidenced by said sales). The lull after ENT was basically a mini version of the '70s except there was a helluva lot more going on in the mid 2000s given the Internet and the amount of new merchandise available.

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
So nothing ever "saved" the franchise, even if they resurrected it from obscurity and made it commercially viable (TWOK, TNG, Abrams), except the second episode, when there was no franchise to speak of. Perfectly logical.
Star Trek wasn't in obscurity in the 1970s nor in the mid 2000s.
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Old May 25 2013, 09:37 PM   #262
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

As I said, I don't think this is what people mean by "saving the franchise", Warped9.
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Old May 25 2013, 09:40 PM   #263
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

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iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
So nothing ever "saved" the franchise, even if they resurrected it from obscurity and made it commercially viable (TWOK, TNG, Abrams), except the second episode, when there was no franchise to speak of. Perfectly logical.
Star Trek wasn't in obscurity in the 1970s nor in the mid 2000s.
Of course it was. You just were in obscurity with it.
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Old May 25 2013, 09:51 PM   #264
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Belz... wrote: View Post
As I said, I don't think this is what people mean by "saving the franchise", Warped9.
Oh, I understand what they mean. I just disagree with their meaning.

There hasn't been new Beatles music since 1970, but someone is maintaining and overseeing the copyright over their music. And money (I've no idea how much) continues to be made from that music. Yet while The Beatles likely are no longer as recognized among younger generations I think its safe to say they are hardly obscure as in totally forgotten but for a handful of devotees.

Over the decades I think its safe to say Star Trek has enjoyed a longer period of broad awareness than The Beatles' music.

Was the Star Wars franchise truly dead and obscure in the intervening years between the two trilogies? New product continued to tap into a continued interest in the property.

What I'm talking about is a matter of definition. Neither in the '70s or the more recently was Star Trek ever so obscure as to be forgotten and off-the-radar of broader awareness.
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Old May 25 2013, 09:53 PM   #265
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

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Over the decades I think its safe to say Star Trek has enjoyed a longer period of broad awareness than The Beatles' music.
Huh? The Beatles predate Star Trek by a couple of years.
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Old May 25 2013, 09:59 PM   #266
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

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Over the decades I think its safe to say Star Trek has enjoyed a longer period of broad awareness than The Beatles' music.
Huh? The Beatles predate Star Trek by a couple of years.
Yep, a couple of years. But how broadly recognized are they among those below a certain age group, say '40s and up?
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Old May 25 2013, 09:59 PM   #267
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
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So you credit Abrams with keeping the Star Trek franchise alive.
It wasn't dead to begin with.
Is I Love Lucy still a viable franchise, too? After all, it also manages to sell quite a bit of merchandise and is still being syndicated.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:03 PM   #268
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Was the Star Wars franchise truly dead and obscure in the intervening years between the two trilogies? New product continued to tap into a continued interest in the property.
I think there's a Hell of a difference between a franchise that is laying low after producing three movies that each made several hundred-million dollars and a franchise that limped off the stage with a TV series that no one watched and a movie that lost money.
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Old May 25 2013, 10:03 PM   #269
Harvey
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Count Zero wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
Over the decades I think its safe to say Star Trek has enjoyed a longer period of broad awareness than The Beatles' music.
Huh? The Beatles predate Star Trek by a couple of years.
Yep, a couple of years. But how broadly recognized are they among those below a certain age group, say '40s and up?
Very broadly. There are few musical icons more widely recognized in the United States (and, I would guess, abroad).
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Old May 25 2013, 10:05 PM   #270
J. Allen
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
So you credit Abrams with keeping the Star Trek franchise alive.
It wasn't dead to begin with.
It was in a coma and on life support.
Don't you understand? Anyone can come out of a coma anytime they want!
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