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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 24 2013, 11:49 AM   #31
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Re: Cumberbatch Shower Scene

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post


I Trekk'ed myself before I wrecked myself.
I so want to know what's going on in that scene. Lol.
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Old May 24 2013, 12:40 PM   #32
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Cumberbatch Shower Scene

teacake wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
That's okay, Cumby, darling, J's here to comfort* you.

* - feel you up while pretending to listen intently.
I don't think you'd say it like that if it was Alice Eve we were talking about.
J. Allen wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I don't think you'd say it like that if it was Alice Eve we were talking about.
Why not? To not do so would be to invite a double standard.

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J. Allen wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
This has nothing to do with real life and what you wouldn't do, no one has brought that up but yourself. I'm just saying that talking about feeling up an actor comes easier and is less offensive if the actor is male, I think if the actor is female you would have a pause in this forum before you posted such a thing. It doesn't come across as tongue in cheek, it comes across as crossing a line though the line seems more strongly drawn when we are talking about women.
All joking aside, for the moment, I'm sure people would pause. Still, feeling up a man without getting his permission is just as wrong as feeling up a woman without getting her permission. I don't see it as a gender issue, though. Gender doesn't even play into it from my perspective. Invading someone's personal space without their consent is wrong. That seems simple enough. Now, what seems to be the trouble?
Obviously invading anyone's personal space without their permission is wrong, male or female, but I think you're kind of missing the forest for the trees here in your pursuit of avoiding double standards, J. There's a stronger implication behind saying you're going to feel up a woman than a man without their permission because of the vastly higher rate of sexual harassment and assault women face on a daily basis. Saying that to or about a 5'4" woman (or any woman) is probably not going to come across the same way as it would saying it to or about a 6'0" man, because of the history and implications behind such comments from each perspective.

Now, like teacake, I'll throw out the qualifier that this has nothing to do with you, personally. You're a good guy and I know you meant nothing sinister by it and would never feel up anyone without their consent. I just disagree with you that it should mean the same thing to men and women, especially in our present day society where sexual harassment and assault --especially though not exclusively toward women-- is a major concern.
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Old May 24 2013, 04:32 PM   #33
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Re: Cumberbatch Shower Scene

So this is what passes for an appreciation thread in 2013? Egads. I will gladly purchase the blu-ray w/ Cumberbund's gratuitous shower scene and watch the hell outa that over and over and over.

He is an acquired taste but I fully understand the Cumberlove out there. I had an awful time in the theater, PunkinPatch, Pine, Quinto, Cho, Urban. . . so very very luverly!
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Old May 24 2013, 04:49 PM   #34
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Re: Cumberbatch Shower Scene

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Sometimes when they're shooting crying scenes, someone off-camera will blow menthol into the actor's face to help them generate tears. That's what that scene looked like. Cumberbatch flinched a bit and then you see a big tear.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:34 PM   #35
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Re: Cumberbatch Shower Scene

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Sometimes when they're shooting crying scenes, someone off-camera will blow menthol into the actor's face to help them generate tears. That's what that scene looked like. Cumberbatch flinched a bit and then you see a big tear.
Actually, Cumberbatch can cry on demand. They even say so in a Sherlock commentary. I don't see a flinch in any case.
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Old May 24 2013, 06:36 PM   #36
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Re: Cumberbatch Shower Scene

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Obviously invading anyone's personal space without their permission is wrong, male or female, but I think you're kind of missing the forest for the trees here in your pursuit of avoiding double standards, J. There's a stronger implication behind saying you're going to feel up a woman than a man without their permission because of the vastly higher rate of sexual harassment and assault women face on a daily basis. Saying that to or about a 5'4" woman (or any woman) is probably not going to come across the same way as it would saying it to or about a 6'0" man, because of the history and implications behind such comments from each perspective.

Now, like teacake, I'll throw out the qualifier that this has nothing to do with you, personally. You're a good guy and I know you meant nothing sinister by it and would never feel up anyone without their consent. I just disagree with you that it should mean the same thing to men and women, especially in our present day society where sexual harassment and assault --especially though not exclusively toward women-- is a major concern.
Sure, I understand that. The days of smacking a woman on the rear and telling her "good job, sweet cheeks" being condoned, and such are long gone, and good riddance. Women have had to put up with sexual harassment in the workplace, at home, when going out with friends, in almost every social sphere of life, as well as receive little to no support from their under-representative governments when it comes to dire issues like rape, and personal body choice, and that in most societies it is a male dominated environment where one is seen as an object of sexual gratification rather than as an intelligent human being who has thoughts, feelings, and is deserving of respect.

Edit to add:
The only reason I feel comfortable enough to make jokes like I do here, is because I've got to know so many of you, and have been here for more than a decade now. I wouldn't make these jokes where I didn't know anyone, because it would come across exactly as teacake (and yourself) is concerned it would. The familiarity here makes it much easier for me to play around a bit, because I know most of you know me well enough to see it as nothing more than Benny Hill style silliness.
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Last edited by J. Allen; May 24 2013 at 07:07 PM.
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Old May 24 2013, 07:09 PM   #37
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Re: Cumberbatch Shower Scene

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I just mean talking about "feeling up" someone. Seriously, you wouldn't say "I would comfort Alice Eve all the while feeling her up".
Oh my i did not see the feeling up part. No way man. I am but a lowly human. They wouldn't want to be touched by me!
Besides CumberKhan would probably break a person in half if you tried to do something he didn't like.


I apologize teacke.


I Trekk'ed myself before I wrecked myself.
Cumberbatch has a rather felinoid facial appearance. What would it have been like if Cumberbatch played Bilbo Baggins and Martin Freeman played John Harrison?
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Old May 24 2013, 07:10 PM   #38
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Re: Cumberbatch Shower Scene

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Obviously invading anyone's personal space without their permission is wrong, male or female, but I think you're kind of missing the forest for the trees here in your pursuit of avoiding double standards, J. There's a stronger implication behind saying you're going to feel up a woman than a man without their permission because of the vastly higher rate of sexual harassment and assault women face on a daily basis. Saying that to or about a 5'4" woman (or any woman) is probably not going to come across the same way as it would saying it to or about a 6'0" man, because of the history and implications behind such comments from each perspective.

Now, like teacake, I'll throw out the qualifier that this has nothing to do with you, personally. You're a good guy and I know you meant nothing sinister by it and would never feel up anyone without their consent. I just disagree with you that it should mean the same thing to men and women, especially in our present day society where sexual harassment and assault --especially though not exclusively toward women-- is a major concern.
Sure, I understand that. The days of smacking a woman on the rear and telling her "good job, sweet cheeks" being condoned, and such are long gone, and good riddance. Women have had to put up with sexual harassment in the workplace, at home, when going out with friends, in almost every social sphere of life, as well as receive little to no support from their under-representative governments when it comes to dire issues like rape, and personal body choice, and that in most societies it is a male dominated environment where one is seen as an object of sexual gratification rather than as an intelligent human being who has thoughts, feelings, and is deserving of respect.
I like books, movies and plays in which people do things that I would never tolerate IRL. Now, you could say that makes me a hypocrite, but I don't think so. I like BBC's Sherlock, but if I knew that character IRL, I would probably hate him. It's entertainment, not reality, and the problem only arises when people allow life imitate to art. Some movies, books and plays ARE social commentary, and that's fine. But is political correctness necessary in everything? I have to live life with the realities of what being a woman in a man's world is like- I know what it's like. And really, a scene like this is just escapism. I think people are completely allowed to argue whether it is necessary to the plot, but I don't think it should be taken as an example of degrading women, because it doesn't.
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Old May 24 2013, 07:18 PM   #39
Locutus of Bored
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Re: Cumberbatch Shower Scene

sj4iy wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
Obviously invading anyone's personal space without their permission is wrong, male or female, but I think you're kind of missing the forest for the trees here in your pursuit of avoiding double standards, J. There's a stronger implication behind saying you're going to feel up a woman than a man without their permission because of the vastly higher rate of sexual harassment and assault women face on a daily basis. Saying that to or about a 5'4" woman (or any woman) is probably not going to come across the same way as it would saying it to or about a 6'0" man, because of the history and implications behind such comments from each perspective.

Now, like teacake, I'll throw out the qualifier that this has nothing to do with you, personally. You're a good guy and I know you meant nothing sinister by it and would never feel up anyone without their consent. I just disagree with you that it should mean the same thing to men and women, especially in our present day society where sexual harassment and assault --especially though not exclusively toward women-- is a major concern.
Sure, I understand that. The days of smacking a woman on the rear and telling her "good job, sweet cheeks" being condoned, and such are long gone, and good riddance. Women have had to put up with sexual harassment in the workplace, at home, when going out with friends, in almost every social sphere of life, as well as receive little to no support from their under-representative governments when it comes to dire issues like rape, and personal body choice, and that in most societies it is a male dominated environment where one is seen as an object of sexual gratification rather than as an intelligent human being who has thoughts, feelings, and is deserving of respect.
I like books, movies and plays in which people do things that I would never tolerate IRL. Now, you could say that makes me a hypocrite, but I don't think so. I like BBC's Sherlock, but if I knew that character IRL, I would probably hate him. It's entertainment, not reality, and the problem only arises when people allow life imitate to art. Some movies, books and plays ARE social commentary, and that's fine. But is political correctness necessary in everything? I have to live life with the realities of what being a woman in a man's world is like- I know what it's like. And really, a scene like this is just escapism. I think people are completely allowed to argue whether it is necessary to the plot, but I don't think it should be taken as an example of degrading women, because it doesn't.
We're actually talking about the implications of a comment made about personal space and gender issues in the thread itself, not about the scene in the movie or anything else specifically Star Trek related. So, in this case, it actually is reality.
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Old May 24 2013, 07:30 PM   #40
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Re: Cumberbatch Shower Scene

Locutus of Bored wrote: View Post
sj4iy wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post

Sure, I understand that. The days of smacking a woman on the rear and telling her "good job, sweet cheeks" being condoned, and such are long gone, and good riddance. Women have had to put up with sexual harassment in the workplace, at home, when going out with friends, in almost every social sphere of life, as well as receive little to no support from their under-representative governments when it comes to dire issues like rape, and personal body choice, and that in most societies it is a male dominated environment where one is seen as an object of sexual gratification rather than as an intelligent human being who has thoughts, feelings, and is deserving of respect.
I like books, movies and plays in which people do things that I would never tolerate IRL. Now, you could say that makes me a hypocrite, but I don't think so. I like BBC's Sherlock, but if I knew that character IRL, I would probably hate him. It's entertainment, not reality, and the problem only arises when people allow life imitate to art. Some movies, books and plays ARE social commentary, and that's fine. But is political correctness necessary in everything? I have to live life with the realities of what being a woman in a man's world is like- I know what it's like. And really, a scene like this is just escapism. I think people are completely allowed to argue whether it is necessary to the plot, but I don't think it should be taken as an example of degrading women, because it doesn't.
We're actually talking about the implications of a comment made about personal space and gender issues in the thread itself, not about the scene in the movie or anything else specifically Star Trek related. So, in this case, it actually is reality.
True, but I was saying that people are treating entertainment as reality in this case, and it's not.

And yes, when I lived in Japan, I was groped more than once on a crowded train. It's such a problem there that they have separate cars in Tokyo for women and men. Some of the Chinese men that I was acquainted said that I must be cheating on my boyfriend (now husband) because I went to Japan for school for a year. And here in the US, I was demoted for taking maternity leave. And I have been called terrible things because I like sports (despite being married and having children), which I don't even remotely understand because I know many women who do. It's definitely not long gone yet.
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Old May 24 2013, 07:31 PM   #41
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Re: Cumberbatch Shower Scene

sj4iy wrote: View Post
I like books, movies and plays in which people do things that I would never tolerate IRL. Now, you could say that makes me a hypocrite, but I don't think so. I like BBC's Sherlock, but if I knew that character IRL, I would probably hate him. It's entertainment, not reality, and the problem only arises when people allow life imitate to art. Some movies, books and plays ARE social commentary, and that's fine. But is political correctness necessary in everything? I have to live life with the realities of what being a woman in a man's world is like- I know what it's like. And really, a scene like this is just escapism. I think people are completely allowed to argue whether it is necessary to the plot, but I don't think it should be taken as an example of degrading women, because it doesn't.
That's true. In this case, though, LoB, teacake, and I were discussing the real actors themselves, and how things are a touch more sensitive when it comes to women than men, because women have had to face such one sided sexualism.
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