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Old May 18 2013, 04:24 AM   #31
AllStarEntprise
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

^ another episode to remember is TNG Paralells. It confirmed a multi verse existed in star trek. Where variations of reality existed. In comics parallel worlds are create by making different decisions, time travel effects, and or things not working out the way they did in the timeline we follow. Such as the two Ent-D's where Riker was captain but Picafs was killed in BOBW, and another where Captain Riker failed at BOBW and the Borg won and Riker refused to go back to his universe

If you tried to keep it all straight. Every time travel incursion or every variation of history (like Picars saying FC with the Klngons led to decades of war but with ENT we never saw Archer engage in a war after FC with ghe Klingons. You would go mad. Thing is this can be very confusing even in comic book world. What most writers do is never dwell on the fact they've created parallel worlds. Once back in their correct time no matter what time effects may have happened. That timeline is treated like it has always BEEN the original. Until DC or Marvel feels like doing a big epic like Crisis on Infinite Earth's, Infinite Crisis or Countdown to destruction, there is never an explanation for the variations. Partially explains how so many different writers can tackle different comic characters and yet not all their stories match up in one continuous timeline.
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Old May 18 2013, 04:46 AM   #32
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

To be fair the "decades of war" bit can be easily explained as a cold war with the Klingons engaging Earth/Federation forces in minor engagements when expedient. Heck Duras the Lame attacked Archer in Earth's solar system one time. You'd think -that- would have lasting consequences on the attitude towards Klingons. I'd be pissed as hell if Russian forces attacked a US ship in Chesapeake Bay.
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Old May 21 2013, 02:04 AM   #33
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

The 'Alternate Timeline' thing could work.

Remember the Fake Dauntless in Voyager was NX-01-A

Maybe before the Ent-E went back in time, the first NX ship was called Dauntless,after then, butterflies and what not, it became Enterprise.
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Old May 21 2013, 02:12 AM   #34
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

^ Since "Hope and Fear" aired before ENT even existed as a series (thus before the NX-01 Enterprise was ever thought of), I don't think there could be a connection as far as registry numbers go. It's a coincidence, nothing more.
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Old May 21 2013, 03:46 AM   #35
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

For my own part, I've never really agreed with the "FC altered the timeline theory" for purposes of storytelling. I'm not a huge fan of "Regeneration" and I'm inclined to think it was just an excuse on the part of the producers to justify potential continuity issues by having the Borg on the show. By the same token, I also disagree with the concept of having a "temporal police" as shown in eps like "Relativity." It makes no sense to me personally, and I wouldn't trust even the good guys with that level of technology.
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Old May 22 2013, 12:26 AM   #36
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

dulcimer47 wrote: View Post
Just wondered if there was a consensus among ENT fans that the events in ST:FC created an alternate timeline, where ENT takes place.
That's the way I see it. NX-01's design is based on Cochrane's recollections of the 1701-E, and this changes quite a bit of stuff in the early days of Starfleet.
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Old May 22 2013, 04:21 AM   #37
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

Cochrane saw the silhouette of the ship through a telescope while being anything but totally sober. Given that he broke the warp barrier, met guys from the future who told him about a bright future and friggin cyborg and then met aliens I doubt he has a precise memory of the shape of the E.
I also don't see much of a similarity between the sleak, arrow-like E and the NX-01.
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Old May 22 2013, 05:07 AM   #38
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

horatio83 wrote: View Post
I also don't see much of a similarity between the sleak, arrow-like E and the NX-01.
Nor do I. Aside from color, they don't look anything alike to me.

Both First Contact and Enterprise were released before ST09. The alternate-universe-time-travel thing was invented as a way to appease fans over the reboot (and I think it's obvious now that it's an outright reboot). It's silly to go and apply it to all time travel we've seen in Star Trek before, which was always traveling back and altering/restoring one timeline.
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Old May 22 2013, 02:09 PM   #39
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

^I think if it was an outright reboot, they'd never have gone to the lengths they did to point out how and why events unfolded diffetently to how they had in the original timeline.
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Old May 22 2013, 02:39 PM   #40
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

^
Nah, the NuTrek verse was alternate way before Nero showed up in it. Just way too many things are different in it. The loose tie was just thrown in as a transparent attempt to keep the old guard fans happy.
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Old May 22 2013, 02:47 PM   #41
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

Watch The Original Series, Animated Series and old movies where they visit the rim of the galaxy twice, the centre of the galaxy twice and cover 1000 light years in 12 hours at warp 8.4. Now watch Star Trek: Voyager, where their fastest ship would take 75 years to cross 70,000 light years if they could maintain their maximum speed of warp 9.975.

Nothing in nuTrek is as big a fudamental change as that is. Much of TOS is impossible Voyager's framework. And yet they directly cross Voyager over with STVI in "Flashback". IMO if you can do that, then nuTrek most definitely can split off from the PrimeTrek universe in 2233.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:01 AM   #42
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
Watch The Original Series, Animated Series and old movies where they visit the rim of the galaxy twice, the centre of the galaxy twice and cover 1000 light years in 12 hours at warp 8.4. Now watch Star Trek: Voyager, where their fastest ship would take 75 years to cross 70,000 light years if they could maintain their maximum speed of warp 9.975.

Nothing in nuTrek is as big a fudamental change as that is. Much of TOS is impossible Voyager's framework. And yet they directly cross Voyager over with STVI in "Flashback". IMO if you can do that, then nuTrek most definitely can split off from the PrimeTrek universe in 2233.
I never considered VOY "Flashback" to be canon due largely to Dmitri Valtane being shown alive and well at the end of TUC (1991) but killed off in Flashback (1996). If you're going to do a fill in the void episode you could at least make sure all the material lines up with what existed before.


Another thing that supports the alternate timeline theory is what we see in ENT. Specifically the Xindi and Suliban races. From real world stand point and from canon of the show before ENT. That being TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY, we the audience and the characters of each series had never encountered or seen either the Suliban or Xindi races. However both races make up the fabric of the ENT era. Why is that?


Because of the Temporal Cold War. First Contact with the Suliban was made because Future Guy from the 28th century used time travel and technology to rewrite history in his favor. First contact with the Xindi was made because the Sphere Builders of the 26th century used time travel and technology to supplant existing history and rewrite it in their favor. We can't say first contact or any contact with these races was predestination because they were pawns or person from the future.

History and the timelines are like open drafts papers on Microsoft word. Then you have forces/persons who get behind the comp and begin revising and editing to suit their purposes. Future Guy (ENT TCW), The Sphere Builders (ENT Xindi), The Borg(FC), The Krenim (VOY Year Of Hell), Q and Picard (TNG AGT), Arne Darvin (DS9 TATA), Kirk and crew (TVH), Kes (VOY Fury). There are more examples but with these compared to what we see in FC, there is enough evidence to suggest that Cochrane succeeded his warp flight the first without any help or delay from the future. However the Borg having future knowledge and the means to change what they considered a vulnerable point in history, sought to change it in their favor. Which they did, just like how Future Guy destroyed the 29th century Earth by preventing the NX-01's mission. However both these revisions of history were retconned by the actions of NX-01 crew and the ENT-E crew.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:08 AM   #43
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

AllStarEntprise wrote: View Post
Specifically the Xindi and Suliban races. From real world stand point and from canon of the show before ENT. That being TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY, we the audience and the characters of each series had never encountered or seen either the Suliban or Xindi races. However both races make up the fabric of the ENT era. Why is that?
Because the Xindi and Suliban were not even thought of by the writers of TOS through VOY.

Also, the Federation is big.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:53 AM   #44
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

With an alternate timeline of events you have a degree of plausible deniability. In regards to the canon of the show and what we the audience know to be true. Since ENT is a prequel series it walked a tightrope of facts and sometimes contradicts what we know to be true from the series that preceded it. First contact with the Ferengi and Romulan cloaking devices being the biggest goofs by the ENT writers. Keeping the facts straight was compounded and made harder with the TCW and the different factions all trying to rewrite history in their favor and using races we the audience had never heard of to do it.

Creatively this is a clever thing to do if you can do it well. But the ENT writers didn't have a complete direction for where to take it so it kind of fizzled out and settled for being a post 9/11 allegory. It a lot of ways ENT resembles the current Trek movie franchise under Abrams. While Abrams completely shed the skin of previous continuity as far as look of the future and chain of events with races. Berman and Braga (from commentary's and interviews) were intent on keeping it all together as one big stitched together universe. Personally I think they should've used ENT as a full sequel to FC and have the prime universe be the TOS through VOY Endgame where B&B ended the 24th century series.
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Old May 25 2013, 02:11 PM   #45
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Re: First Contact alternate timeline

MickJo1701 wrote: View Post
Mysterion wrote: View Post
I do not agree that there is an alternate timeline in which ENT takes place. ENT is in the same timeline as the rest of TOS, TNG, DSN, and VOY.
Agreed, I really have no issues whatsoever with the retcon of bringing an earlier Enterprise into the timeline or its design lineage.
Aren't those two statements contradictory ? Or did you mean that there's only one timeline but it's been changed ?
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