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Old May 24 2013, 04:37 AM   #151
Warped9
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Yes, I believe that, in the sense of reviving a stale and mostly dormant property, J.J. Abrams' efforts saved the franchise.

Also, regarding TOS deep intellectual introspection, I offer this:

This is disingenuous. No one said Star Trek and particularly TOS lacked or eschewed action/adventure.
Didn't say it lacked it, I'm just keeping it from being placed on this pedestal of philosophical wonderment that it neither deserves, and upon which it doesn't belong. As it gets older, the Original Series is quickly becoming Nichelle Nichols' Martin Luther King story.
And I don't think anyone here (at least in this thread) made that claim.
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Old May 24 2013, 04:44 AM   #152
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Did Abrams save Star Trek from what? Was it in some kind of danger? Was al Qaeda involved?
Becoming a minor footnote in the pop cultural history of the late 20th Century.
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Old May 24 2013, 04:45 AM   #153
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Did Abrams save Star Trek from what? Was it in some kind of danger? Was al Qaeda involved?
Becoming a minor footnote in the pop cultural history of the late 20th Century.
No, I don't think it was in danger of becoming that.
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Old May 24 2013, 04:51 AM   #154
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Did Abrams save Star Trek from what? Was it in some kind of danger? Was al Qaeda involved?
Becoming a minor footnote in the pop cultural history of the late 20th Century.
Star Trek was never in any danger of being a "minor footnote." It's the most iconic series in science fiction.

You say "science fiction" to a random person on the street and Star Trek is most likely what pops into their head.

I don't understand the philosophy of continuing to making new Trek just for the sake of making new Trek.
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Old May 24 2013, 04:51 AM   #155
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Did Abrams save Star Trek from what? Was it in some kind of danger? Was al Qaeda involved?
Becoming a minor footnote in the pop cultural history of the late 20th Century.
Yes, this sums it up pretty well.
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Old May 24 2013, 04:54 AM   #156
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
And I don't think anyone here (at least in this thread) made that claim.
There is, however, a sense of reverence when it comes to TOS, that it's this inviolable property that spoke of higher moral certitude, and made you really think. The idea that its philosophies ran deep. The Original Series was a western in space, that mostly substituted magic with the appearance of science, and had lots of slam bang action sequences along with its occasional forays into morality.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:00 AM   #157
Warped9
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Warped9 wrote: View Post
And I don't think anyone here (at least in this thread) made that claim.
There is, however, a sense of reverence when it comes to TOS, that it's this inviolable property that spoke of higher moral certitude, and made you really think. The idea that its philosophies ran deep. The Original Series was a western in space, that mostly substituted magic with the appearance of science, and had lots of slam bang action sequences along with its occasional forays into morality.
If at heart and in overall sensibility TOS had been just another run-of-the-mill sci-fi show it wouldn't have connected with succeeding generations of fans.

And we wouldn't be here debating it more than forty years later.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:03 AM   #158
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Did Abrams save Star Trek from what? Was it in some kind of danger? Was al Qaeda involved?
Becoming a minor footnote in the pop cultural history of the late 20th Century.
No, I don't think it was in danger of becoming that.
When your "output" is regulated to moderately selling books and fanfilms, then yes it does.

Third Nacelle wrote:
Star Trek was never in any danger of being a "minor footnote." It's the most iconic series in science fiction.

You say "science fiction" to a random person on the street and Star Trek is most likely what pops into their head.

I don't understand the philosophy of continuing to making new Trek just for the sake of making new Trek.
Is it? Yeah, I'd like to think so. But that's just me.

If they don't say "Star Wars", "aliens and space ships" or "I don't watch that stuff".

You realize its a commercial property, right? And the owners would like to make money off it.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:07 AM   #159
Third Nacelle
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
And the owners would like to make money off it.
So we're on the same page after all.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:12 AM   #160
Geoff Peterson
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
And the owners would like to make money off it.
So we're on the same page after all.
Then you do understand the philosophy of why they continue make new Star Trek for sake of making new Star Trek.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:24 AM   #161
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

No, I understand the FACTS of why Star Trek does continue to get made.

I do not understand the philosophy of why people believe it SHOULD continue to get made. By that logic they should reboot The Golden Girls, or MASH or ER, or Seinfeld.

Maybe this will sound like blasphemy, but Star Trek ran out of new stories to tell about halfway through Voyager. It needed a much longer break. If there's going to be new Star Trek, it should be NEW Star Trek. I don't hate the Abrams movies, but I don't see what they add to the franchise. They're pastiche bordering on parody.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:30 AM   #162
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
No, I understand the FACTS of why Star Trek does continue to get made.

I do not understand the philosophy of why people believe it SHOULD continue to get made. By that logic they should reboot The Golden Girls, or MASH or ER, or Seinfeld.

Maybe this will sound like blasphemy, but Star Trek ran out of new stories to tell about halfway through Voyager. It needed a much longer break. If there's going to be new Star Trek, it should be NEW Star Trek. I don't hate the Abrams movies, but I don't see what they add to the franchise. They're pastiche bordering on parody.
I see no reason why they shouldn't reboot any of those. Okay, maybe not Seinfeld, but only because of it's connection to Jerry Seinfeld.

Star Trek ran out of new ideas halfway through TOS season one.

Nah it should be new stories about Kirk and Spock.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:37 AM   #163
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
If at heart and in overall sensibility TOS had been just another run-of-the-mill sci-fi show it wouldn't have connected with succeeding generations of fans.

And we wouldn't be here debating it more than forty years later.
Sure Star Trek connects with people, and it seems the new movies are doing the same. What's your point?
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Old May 24 2013, 06:03 AM   #164
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

JJ Abrams is giving us three films. No more, no less. He was in the right place at the right time.

Paramount would've eventually wanted to reboot Star Trek, Abrams or not. CBS will eventually want a new Star Trek series. If not them, then Paramount when it gets its own TV wing (back) up and they'd work something out with CBS in that scenario.

Even in 2005, I never thought ENT would be the last series but I didn't expect one any time soon. When CBS and whoever else might be the right people are good and ready, they'll have a new series.

On the film end, ST XIV may continue in the Abrams style or whoever produces/directs after him will want to do Star Trek their way.* It would be revamped again at the very least but more likely just rebooted again.

* I know there's a strong chance JJ Abrams won't direct ST XIII but he'll still be producing and they'll probably want to keep the next film consistent with the first two so I don't see any serious changes happening until after that.
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Old May 24 2013, 07:31 AM   #165
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Lord Garth wrote: View Post
JJ Abrams is giving us three films. No more, no less. He was in the right place at the right time.

Paramount would've eventually wanted to reboot Star Trek, Abrams or not. CBS will eventually want a new Star Trek series. If not them, then Paramount when it gets its own TV wing (back) up and they'd work something out with CBS in that scenario.

Even in 2005, I never thought ENT would be the last series but I didn't expect one any time soon. When CBS and whoever else might be the right people are good and ready, they'll have a new series.

On the film end, ST XIV may continue in the Abrams style or whoever produces/directs after him will want to do Star Trek their way.* It would be revamped again at the very least but more likely just rebooted again.

* I know there's a strong chance JJ Abrams won't direct ST XIII but he'll still be producing and they'll probably want to keep the next film consistent with the first two so I don't see any serious changes happening until after that.
Yes, he was in the right place at the right time, but it still takes the right skill set to make a profitable, and popular, movie in a franchise besotted with 40+ years of canon and fandom. Star Trek XI, in someone else's hands, could have failed miserably. Instead, it broke previous box office records.

I think J.J. deserves a little credit for that.
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