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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old May 23 2013, 07:33 AM   #16
Takeru
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

Tosk wrote: View Post
His actions seemed just fine to me.

Think of it in terms of our time...

A serial killer carrying a deadly weapon is caught in the act of trying to murder yet another victim.
The police taze them to minimal effect.
They taze again, killer still not going down. The police implore the killer not to do it.
When the killer lunges for the victim, do the cops shoot to kill?
I hope not, because for the comparison to work the weapon has to be specialized to work on the intended victim only posing no threat to the cops, so there's no reason the cops couldn't position themselves between the killer and the victim. The victim is also not hurt and unrestrained and can move away from the killer who has no long distance weapon.

I think the scene was just badly staged, everyone acted as if Yuta had a bomb and threatened to blow the place up. If the stun setting doesn't work, tackle her, kick her in the face, break her legs if you have to but don't just vaporize her.
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Old May 23 2013, 07:51 AM   #17
R. Star
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
And he vaporized his clone under the pretense of "Well, it came from my cells"!
And Pulaski's clone. That was intentional murder. Using deadly force to defend an innocent life can be questionable at times, but isn't murder. Seems to me you could only make a case for manslaughter at best with that.

Which, given you can smuggle for the Maquis(Kassidy) or try and hijack a Federation ship and bombard the heads of state of a foreign power(Garak) and only get a few months in prison, I'd say Riker would only get sentenced to time served at best even if found guilty there.
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Old May 23 2013, 08:39 AM   #18
Salinga
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

Unfortunatly one of the scenes, where the writer (Roddenberry?) forcefully tried to make a point: A starfleet officer puts his duty first and even kills a person which he has feelings for.
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Old May 23 2013, 09:43 AM   #19
MacLeod
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

Well if you wanted to go down an alternate oute, they could simply have beamed Yuta into a containment cell.
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Old May 23 2013, 11:41 PM   #20
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

Yuta was a few feet away from Chorgan and only had to touch him briefly to kill him. For all intents and purposes she was holding a gun to his head. He could have tried to overpower her, but probably wouldn't have gotten to her in time. He could have aimed for her legs or gone for a sustained shot, but no guarantee then she would not somehow manage to touch him.

When innocent lives are in imminent danger you don't mess around.
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Old May 24 2013, 12:47 AM   #21
Tiberius
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

Riker shoots her three times. The first time, she goes stumbling back.

The second time, she almost collapses in pain (and would have if she hadn't grabbed the table). And that was after a quick burst. A sustained burst would have Yuta on the floor in agony, unable to hurt Chorgan.

But no, despite the fact Riker has a means of sending Yuta reeling, he chooses to kill her instead.
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Old May 24 2013, 04:56 AM   #22
Tosk
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

Tiberius wrote: View Post
But no, despite the fact Riker has a means of sending Yuta reeling, he chooses to kill her instead.
Or to put it another way, she chooses to be killed rather than stopping. It's not as though she didn't know what might happen if she didn't stop...he warned her twice.
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Old May 24 2013, 05:39 AM   #23
Tiberius
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

So? The fact that Riker warned her twice did not mean he had to set the phaser to kill. Riker knew that a quick zap would send her reeling back (the second time he shot her). All he had to do was to hit her with a sustained shot, say five seconds, at that same exact power level, and she would have been easily rendered incapacitated or unconscious. All he has to do then is grab her, get a bunch of other folks to hold her so she can't attack Chorgan, then beam her up to the Enterprise and put in the brig. Chorgan and Marouk conclude their negotiations with her in custody, then when they take Marouk home, they turn Yuta over to the Acamarian authorities.

But instead, Riker chose to kill her.
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Old May 24 2013, 12:00 PM   #24
BillJ
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

And since she hasn't aged a day in fifty-three years she sits in prison for likely hundreds of years or until the last of the Lornak clan dies.
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Old May 24 2013, 04:11 PM   #25
DostoyevskyClone
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

I'm surprised there's any debate about this at all. Watch the video. After the second shot, she collapses to her knees. After this, Riker increases the power setting again, hitting the button at least three (if not four) times. That means he skipped settings between 'bring a humanoid to his or her knees' and 'vaporize said humanoid.' It's just really bad writing. It's pretty transparent that the writers wanted a certain ending to this episode.

When I last watched this episode a few years back, I thought it was over-the-top and completely unnecessary. It felt forced. I watched the scene on YouTube yesterday to refresh my memory, and it's bad as I remember it (if not worse) - Riker didn't have to kill her. Like several others have said, the second shot showed that he didn't even have to go beyond that power setting.

Let's answer some questions:

1. Would she have gone any further if he kept shooting her on that power setting? Watch the video again. I don't think so.

2. If you really don't think that second power setting was enough, could he not simply have selected a setting that was higher than the second shot but lower than the third? Yes. It probably would have caused her to completely collapse on the floor from pain.

He kills her only because the writers decided it would be more dramatic, and a 'better' ending to the episode.
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Old May 24 2013, 04:53 PM   #26
Marsden
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Riker shoots her three times. The first time, she goes stumbling back.

The second time, she almost collapses in pain (and would have if she hadn't grabbed the table). And that was after a quick burst. A sustained burst would have Yuta on the floor in agony, unable to hurt Chorgan.

But no, despite the fact Riker has a means of sending Yuta reeling, he chooses to kill her instead.
I see what you are saying, but what if that second shot was a "kill" setting? (Phasers were so much simpler when there was just stun and evaporate, they didn't leave corpses, now they just do enough damage to kill but there are bodies.) So, back on track, that first shot didn't stun her and then she's hit on a stronger setting that effectively cooked her liver and she wouldn't have survived much longer, but long enough to kill by touching. Then vaporizing her is just finishing her off quicker and preventing her corpse from killing, because even if she was dead, that would still have killed Chorgan. Just for discussion sake, I don't know this, of course.
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Old May 24 2013, 08:09 PM   #27
jimbotron
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

Where was this outrage when that crazy lady killed the Crystalline Entity? The guy just needs to eat.
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Old May 25 2013, 12:48 AM   #28
Pavonis
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

If the Crystalline Entity were a cute blonde, then there would have been outrage.
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Old May 25 2013, 01:20 AM   #29
R. Star
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Riker shoots her three times. The first time, she goes stumbling back.

The second time, she almost collapses in pain (and would have if she hadn't grabbed the table). And that was after a quick burst. A sustained burst would have Yuta on the floor in agony, unable to hurt Chorgan.

But no, despite the fact Riker has a means of sending Yuta reeling, he chooses to kill her instead.
Or maybe a sustained shot on the second setting -would- have killed her in an agonizing fashion and Riker chose a comparatively painless method when she persisted on attacking. Never know.
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Old May 25 2013, 01:37 AM   #30
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Wanted for Murder: Cmdr Riker

Riker was faced with an impossible situation. He had only seconds to act. He couldn't take the chance that Yuta might get away - it was all happening too fast. So even if he set the phaser a bit too high, Riker was still justified in killing Yuta, since he acted in defense of Chorgan. So therefore it's not murder.
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