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Old May 23 2013, 04:25 PM   #16
BillJ
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post

I framed my post and question in a fair minded way. If by chance someone still takes offence from it then I'm at a loss as to what else can be said.
Warped9 wrote:
JJ didn’t save a damned thing.
This shows that your not really trying to be fair minded at all. In my opinion.
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Old May 23 2013, 04:26 PM   #17
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Someone would've come along and "saved" it.

I prefer to think after Nemesis and Enterprise that the franchise went into a lull. I was fully braced for no new meaningful Trek for a good decade. Then Paramount handed things to Abrams. Like it, Love it, or Hate it Abrams did something that had been missing since Roddenberry & Berman brought TNG to us in syndication. Abrams did a similar, if not identical thing....created new fans. That can't be ignored. When Trek 11(as I like to call it) came out and soared past $100m, then $200m it was clear that Star Trek was really popular, not really niche anymore. That kinda pleased me. Even at the height of Treks 90's incarnations on TV & Film Trek was still viewed as just a popular niche, now with Trek 11 it was general audience cool!

I know Abrams will be busy with SW:ep7 next but hope he at least Executive Produces the next installment. Cause Trek 12 is still likely to cross $200m domestic again and after WW#'s that is sure to lead to Trek 13!!
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Old May 23 2013, 04:27 PM   #18
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

BillJ wrote: View Post
All I know is that what Abrams brought to the franchise is far better than what I thought we'd get after the cancellation of Enterprise. I really thought we'd see CBS try to wring every last dollar possible out of the corpse by giving us either a cheap Kirk-Spock buddy comedy that made fun of the series (like The Brady Bunch/Starsky and Hutch movies) or a dark take ala Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica (where everyone hates everyone and the Federation is some dark monstrosity).
I personally don't care for nuBSG, but if TPTB had gone that route (something I wouldn't have liked to see myself) and it had been successful then from the business side the franchise would have been up and walking again.

Would that also have constituted as "saving the franchise?"
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Old May 23 2013, 04:47 PM   #19
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
It's often said as something of a mantra: JJ Abrams saved the franchise.

Really?
I wouldn't say it quite like that, as many people were involved in writing, producing, and marketing these new movies.

But Trek was down for the count after the failures of Enterprise and Nemesis (I'd even say that Voyager is in part responsible for that state of affairs), so some new life was needed for the aging franchise.

Now, surely Abrams' style helped sell Trek to the masses, but I wouldn't make him the sole benefactor of the revival.

And we still don't know how long this will last.
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Old May 23 2013, 04:50 PM   #20
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I personally don't care for nuBSG, but if TPTB had gone that route (something I wouldn't have liked to see myself) and it had been successful then from the business side the franchise would have been up and walking again.

Would that also have constituted as "saving the franchise?"
Of course it would've from CBS perspective. From mine, not so much because I simply don't think that's what Trek is (one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of Deep Space Nine).

I think J.J. Abrams did the best job that could possibly be done balancing what was there and updating it for modern audiences. Does it mean I agree with every creative choice they've made over two movies? Of course not. But they're fun movies and that's what I want from Star Trek, is to be entertained.

And honestly, I think Gene Roddenberry of 1966 would've loved these movies.
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Old May 23 2013, 04:53 PM   #21
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

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So when TPTP shut it all down after over-saturation was the franchise in peril or dormant or even dead?

No, because fans keep it going and TPTB continue to make money off tie-in merchandise of pre-existing shows and movies.
There is a fatal flaw in that argument: Star Trek fans -- I mean those who actually keep it alive by buying stuff or writing fanfic, etc. -- are not enough to keep it going.

Paramount didn't make a new Trek movie because the fans buy merchandise: they did so because the franchise is a venerable one that they know will make money because it's so well-known.

But without series or movies, it's not really "alive", is it ?
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Old May 23 2013, 04:53 PM   #22
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

I think he changed the "franchise," not saved it. he warped it into Big, Dumb Entertainment, the exact opposite of TREK.

The movies are fun, but they are a cash cow for a studio. They do not progress the Trek universe, only cheat it by creating a new "alternate" storyline which really does not matter to the canon.
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Old May 23 2013, 04:54 PM   #23
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

What I want from Star Trek is to be forced to THINK. I can get entertainment from the Hangover franchise, or Star Wars
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Old May 23 2013, 04:56 PM   #24
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

RXTT wrote: View Post
What I want from Star Trek is to be forced to THINK. I can get entertainment from the Hangover franchise, or Star Wars
When's the last time Star Trek forced you to THINK ?

Really ? Not much of that in TOS or the previous movies. And the other series were mostly entertainment. Did you mean that you want smart or well-made science-fiction ? Then sure.

But force you to think ? I don't remember Star Trek doing that for me.
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Old May 23 2013, 05:01 PM   #25
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

There are perhaps two perspectives here.

- the franchise is alive only as long as there are big new things introduced.

- the franchise is alive as long as interest is maintained/continued.
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Old May 23 2013, 05:02 PM   #26
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

RXTT wrote: View Post
What I want from Star Trek is to be forced to THINK. I can get entertainment from the Hangover franchise, or Star Wars
Obviously Star Trek Into Darkness did something right as it has some conservative bloggers in an uproar over its message.
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Old May 23 2013, 05:04 PM   #27
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Belz... wrote: View Post
RXTT wrote: View Post
What I want from Star Trek is to be forced to THINK. I can get entertainment from the Hangover franchise, or Star Wars
When's the last time Star Trek forced you to THINK ?

Really ? Not much of that in TOS or the previous movies. And the other series were mostly entertainment. Did you mean that you want smart or well-made science-fiction ? Then sure.

But force you to think ? I don't remember Star Trek doing that for me.
I think what is meant is that he/she prefers Trek that offers something to think about and maybe doesn't have to spell everything out.
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Old May 23 2013, 05:04 PM   #28
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
There are perhaps two perspectives here.

- the franchise is alive only as long as there are big new things introduced.

- the franchise is alive as long as interest is maintained/continued.
Well, I think both are correct (remove "big" and replace with "official" in your first one). But in the second sense, Metropolis is still alive, even though the last and only movie was made way back in 1927. Oh, there's "interest", sure.

I don't deny that the people who loved Star Trek before continued to love it. But the point is that the series and movies (the meat of the franchise) were no longer making good money. In that respect, Abrams and his collaborators "brought back" Star Trek.

Now, I don't think Paramount would've let the franchise lay there for too long before trying again, but if the 2009 movie had bombed, that might've been the deathknell for Trek.
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Old May 23 2013, 05:05 PM   #29
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Warped9 wrote: View Post
I think what is meant is that he/she prefers Trek that offers something to think about and maybe doesn't have to spell everything out.
Well in that respect Into Darkness did something right, I think, since there's a lot of non-spoken plot points that we keep debating -- because they were either cut from the movie or left out due to the filmmakers deeming it wasn't necessary to do exposition on them.
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Old May 23 2013, 05:08 PM   #30
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Re: Did Abrams really save the franchise?

Belz... wrote: View Post
RXTT wrote: View Post
What I want from Star Trek is to be forced to THINK. I can get entertainment from the Hangover franchise, or Star Wars
When's the last time Star Trek forced you to THINK ?

Really ? Not much of that in TOS or the previous movies. And the other series were mostly entertainment. Did you mean that you want smart or well-made science-fiction ? Then sure.

But force you to think ? I don't remember Star Trek doing that for me.
lots of episodes did. But then, lots of episodes didn't. People forget that there was always an aspect of action in the franchise and every episode wasn't deep.
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