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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.33%
A 161 21.61%
A- 100 13.42%
B+ 82 11.01%
B 58 7.79%
B- 27 3.62%
C+ 40 5.37%
C 38 5.10%
C- 25 3.36%
D+ 11 1.48%
D 13 1.74%
D- 10 1.34%
F 36 4.83%
Voters: 745. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 22 2013, 05:01 PM   #3496
Belz...
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Blue_Trek wrote: View Post
Did we even see the same movies ?
Yeah, it's called an opinion. I wish there were more TMP-like sci-fi movies, but I understand that it's unappealing to most people, so I don't make an issue of it.
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Old May 22 2013, 05:19 PM   #3497
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Belz... wrote: View Post
Blue_Trek wrote: View Post
Did we even see the same movies ?
Yeah, it's called an opinion. I wish there were more TMP-like sci-fi movies, but I understand that it's unappealing to most people, so I don't make an issue of it.


The Motion Picture has a story with big ideas and special effects to match. But I can see how it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. Though I wished we would get more big idea movies but I know that's unrealistic based on the current market.
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Old May 22 2013, 05:19 PM   #3498
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Belz... wrote: View Post
Blue_Trek wrote: View Post
Did we even see the same movies ?
Yeah, it's called an opinion. I wish there were more TMP-like sci-fi movies, but I understand that it's unappealing to most people, so I don't make an issue of it.

2001 would be a complete disaster today, people don't have the attention span to watch a movie like that. I liked TMP, it has one of my favorite trek moments in it, the fly around the Enterprise. I thought the DE version tightened the film up a lot and that is the version of the film I really like the best.

Although, I do miss the computer voice from the theatrical release.

I thought the story telling in Into Darkness was pretty close to the original series. It had Sulu left in command, Kirk and a landing party on a mission, McCoy making some sort of serum to save a crew member, this time Kirk, it had the banter between the crew, some humor, the over reaching StarFleet (commissioner, admiral, commodore), each of the crew members had their moments to do something in the film as well.


RDM on Trek on TV vs. Film
http://geektyrant.com/news/2013/4/5/...ed-for-tv.html

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Old May 22 2013, 07:29 PM   #3499
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I'm with RDM. I've been a long time TV-Trek advocate. While the films are great for what they are, and definitely way more accessible, they lack the subtle nuance, simplicity, and charm of the great episodes.

If adjusted accordingly, I think all twelve films would have been pretty average episodes.
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Old May 22 2013, 07:44 PM   #3500
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

cbspock wrote: View Post
I thought the story telling in Into Darkness was pretty close to the original series. It had Sulu left in command....-Chris
I remember Scotty being left in command most of the time, while the Trio was on a landing party..
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Old May 22 2013, 07:53 PM   #3501
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
cbspock wrote: View Post
I thought the story telling in Into Darkness was pretty close to the original series. It had Sulu left in command....-Chris
I remember Scotty being left in command most of the time, while the Trio was on a landing party..

In season 1 Sulu was left in charge several times. Errand of Mercy he was told to leave if the Klingon's showed up. The scene in Trek 2009 in the transporter room before they go to the Narada reminded me of that episode in particular.


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Old May 22 2013, 08:01 PM   #3502
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I really liked the effect when the Enterprise was shot out of warp, leaving a trail of debris. I think this is the first time we ever saw a debris field in Star Trek from a one on one space battle. (I guess it would be 2, if we count Balance of Terror)


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Old May 22 2013, 08:18 PM   #3503
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

trevanian wrote: View Post
I think TUC's overuse of the quotes...
I know this is veering off-topic, but the strength of TUC in the larger context of Trekdom is its portrayal of a more cultured Klingon rather than the Viking/Samurai stereotype in the TNG-era shows that often veered on caricature with all that grunting and howling and mugs clanking together.

There was somewhat of a breaking of the 4th wall going on by casting a Shakespearean actor to sling Shakespeare as well. Everyone knew who was under Chang's mask, and so it felt fitting to let him quote Shakespeare.

It's also been a Trek tradition to make literary references, all the way back through TOS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eXB1Yj05Fw

The idea is, at least in Starfleet, that everyone's well-educated in the liberal arts and these things just kind of flow out of them. You saw that again in TNG with Picard quoting Hamlet (one of my favorite TNG moments).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irYYBx8djsU

So it's hardly Nick Meyer alone doing this stuff.

Khan's a monster but he's also supposed to be a super-genius, so he is well-read and likes to show it now and then.

Trek has always (at least until JJ) been very preachy which is not unlike Shakespearean drama with all those lofty monologues.
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Old May 22 2013, 08:25 PM   #3504
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Belz... wrote: View Post
Blue_Trek wrote: View Post
Did we even see the same movies ?
Yeah, it's called an opinion. I wish there were more TMP-like sci-fi movies, but I understand that it's unappealing to most people, so I don't make an issue of it.


The Motion Picture has a story with big ideas and special effects to match. But I can see how it wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. Though I wished we would get more big idea movies but I know that's unrealistic based on the current market.
Unlike STV, STTMP could easily have been saved in the writing process. Think STNG's Tin Man, which had a constant threat and still had a personal story (Spock vs Tam).
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Old May 22 2013, 08:56 PM   #3505
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
By "better storytellers," you mean Nick Meyer--the guy who "re-imagined" Melville, Dickens, and Shakespeare.
It's not an original concept that is most important. It's the skill in execution.

JJ's reliance on secrecy as the be-all-end-all is kind of like another bad filmmaker (M. Night Shyamalan). It's not the destination that matters, but the journey. Otherwise something like Wrath of Khan would be enjoyable only once, so you can be shocked when they kill off Spock.

To me, action set-pieces like Kirk flying his Falcon-ripoff through Kronos as if it's the Death Star in ROTJ--it's just dull rote action. Barrel roles and SW-style one-liners in the cockpit about not being able to fit through cracks. The build-up of the Reliant's surprise attack and the cat-and-mouse that leads to cracking the security codes and lowering Khan's shields "here it comes" complete with Horner's perfectly synced soundtrack--that is sooo much more entertaining.
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Old May 22 2013, 09:01 PM   #3506
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

mos6507 wrote: View Post

To me, action set-pieces like Kirk flying his Falcon-ripoff through Kronos as if it's the Death Star in ROTJ--it's just dull rote action. Barrel roles and SW-style one-liners in the cockpit about not being able to fit through cracks. The build-up of the Reliant's surprise attack and the cat-and-mouse that leads to cracking the security codes and lowering Khan's shields "here it comes" complete with Horner's perfectly synced soundtrack--that is sooo much more entertaining.
I find both entertaining.
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Old May 22 2013, 09:08 PM   #3507
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
mos6507 wrote: View Post

To me, action set-pieces like Kirk flying his Falcon-ripoff through Kronos as if it's the Death Star in ROTJ--it's just dull rote action. Barrel roles and SW-style one-liners in the cockpit about not being able to fit through cracks. The build-up of the Reliant's surprise attack and the cat-and-mouse that leads to cracking the security codes and lowering Khan's shields "here it comes" complete with Horner's perfectly synced soundtrack--that is sooo much more entertaining.
I find both entertaining.

Me too
Trek 2-6 were filmed like TV episodes. JJ Trek and TMP were actually done on movie budgets. If TOS had a budget, I could totally see them doing a scene like we saw in Into Darkness. Even on DS9 they had a runabout chase through an asteroid belt, or runabouts being chased even Defiant hunting down Jemhadar fighters, etc. Nothing wrong with that.

Back to TOS, Doomsday Machine had some great "one liners" back in the day.


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Old May 22 2013, 10:47 PM   #3508
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Blue_Trek wrote: View Post
ST09 and STID blows TMP out of the water. There are so many better TOS TV shows than the TMP even. Every single Star Trek TV series has better single TV episodes than TMP.
Precisely what I was told almost weekly throughout 1980. But I had only been exposed to random eps of TAS and a few eps of TOS in the 70s, a fascinating series of "from the set of TMP" newspaper articles in the week leading up to the premiere of TMP, and reading the novelization. I was totally captivated by TMP and no film ever since has so overwhelmed me.

TMP is a TV episode of the TOS nothing more, nothing special as it should have been, as it could have been.
I probably helps never to have seen "The Changeling" before seeing TMP. But TMP's also a "reunion movie", in the tradition of often very kitsch shows such as "Rescue from Gilligan's Island" and "A Very Brady Christmas". Goldsmith's music was beautiful! The trip around the Enterprise in drydock was amazing for me, as a newbie; I can only imagine some ten-year veteran fans being delirious by such generosity of screentime.

But yeah, coming out of the cinema from my first viewing of TMP (alone), ST 2009 (with a friend who'd also found Trek via TMP) and to a slightly lesser extent STiD (several TrekBBS members), I had that similar feeling of deep, personal satisfaction that I never got from ST II or ST IV, as popular as those films remain.
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Old May 22 2013, 11:55 PM   #3509
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
TMP is a TV episode of the TOS nothing more, nothing special as it should have been, as it could have been.
I probably helps never to have seen "The Changeling" before seeing TMP. But TMP's also a "reunion movie", in the tradition of often very kitsch shows such as "Rescue from Gilligan's Island" and "A Very Brady Christmas". Goldsmith's music was beautiful! The trip around the Enterprise in drydock was amazing for me, as a newbie; I can only imagine some ten-year veteran fans being delirious by such generosity of screentime.

But yeah, coming out of the cinema from my first viewing of TMP (alone), ST 2009 (with a friend who'd also found Trek via TMP) and to a slightly lesser extent STiD (several TrekBBS members), I had that similar feeling of deep, personal satisfaction that I never got from ST II or ST IV, as popular as those films remain.
I think 'captivating' is a great way to describe TMP. I saw it when I was quite young and it was so different from the series that it caught me off-guard in a good way. It looked amazing and I like the way the characters appeared competent, crisp, and professional overall. I thought all it needed was some more character moments between the supporting cast outside of delivering lines and repeating orders, and some exciting scenes off the ship.

However, TWoK holds together as the best of the bunch for me because it works on so many levels. It has its share of dumb moments and I wish a bit more of the background from the novel had made it onto the screen but it is just a great movie.

I think NuTrek is far more childish in its approach than most of its predecessors but the rot started with STIV. STIV is a comedy and works really well but V and VI tried to follow in its footsteps by turning the main cast into caricatures. This works less well in more serious stories.

NuTrek has got the balance right with most of the cast though. They work to give them all a moment in the spotlight and the developing relationships are really fun to watch. A bit more of that in TMP and the movie would have scored even more highly for me.
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Old May 23 2013, 01:33 AM   #3510
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

gornsky wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Caligula wrote: View Post

2) The new-ish look for the Klingons. The helmets look like something that belongs on a Predator, and once said helmets are removed, every Klingon depicted looks indistinguishable from the next.
I've only seen it three times, but I only thought one Klingon took off his helmet?
Yes, we only see one Klingon. The rest remain helmeted. So I'm a little unsure about the idea that they all look the same
I have not had the opportunity to see it multiple times yet, or surely I would have caught on to this as well. So much shit was happening in this movie, action-wise, that I was bound to misremember something.
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