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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 22 2013, 02:03 PM   #31
Bishop76
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

Using Spock Prime was insulting to the audience and to the characters in the film. To the audience because he provided no new information that we hadn't already been provided. To the characters in the movie because it implies that they are incapable of standing on their own and need to call Grandpa Spock every time they run into a jam they can't get out of. It was terrible fan-wankery at its worst.
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Old May 22 2013, 02:03 PM   #32
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime?

teacake wrote: View Post
If Nimoy was younger the next movie might have been about him being abducted by nefarious types and NuSpock and Kirk having to Search for Spock.


I wonder what they'd call that movie ?

I actually think Spock Prime will have a bigger part in the next film - showing his work on New Vulcan and completing his character arc.

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
teacake's new avatar is bound to induce the pon farr and more than a few blood fevers over in the Voyager forum.
The proportions are a bit off. It needs more, er, head...
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Old May 22 2013, 04:42 PM   #33
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

Bishop76 wrote: View Post
Using Spock Prime was insulting to the audience and to the characters in the film.
It's one thing to call it a contrived and convenient moment in the film designed solely to give Nimoy a cameo just so he can briefly mention the Prime timeline and his Enterprise's run-ins with Khan, but I think it was fun, a little poignant and it was a nice way to tie the new reality in with the old one and make a passing reference to the drama and tragedy involved with battling Khan in the original history.

"Insulting" is far from the word I'd use. I'm a hardcore old school Trekker and I didn't feel remotely "insulted" by Nimoy's cameo.
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Old May 22 2013, 04:53 PM   #34
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

cooleddie74 wrote: View Post
Bishop76 wrote: View Post
Using Spock Prime was insulting to the audience and to the characters in the film.
It's one thing to call it a contrived and convenient moment in the film designed solely to give Nimoy a cameo just so he can briefly mention the Prime timeline and his Enterprise's run-ins with Khan, but I think it was fun, a little poignant and it was a nice way to tie the new reality in with the old one and make a passing reference to the drama and tragedy involved with battling Khan in the original history.

"Insulting" is far from the word I'd use. I'm a hardcore old school Trekker and I didn't feel remotely "insulted" by Nimoy's cameo.
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Old May 22 2013, 04:56 PM   #35
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

I'm a hardcore old school Trekker too and insulting is what it was. What did that add to the movie? What purpose did it serve narratively? Spock prime was great in the first reboot. He handed off the torch and then should have disappeared into the background. Again, this scene implies out characters need to call for help any time they're in a pickle and are incapable of handling it on their own. There is such a thing as Boeing out gracefully - like at the end of Trek 09. This is and feels like pure fanwank.
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Old May 22 2013, 04:57 PM   #36
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

I shouldn't post from my phone... That should be bowing out gracefully
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Old May 22 2013, 04:58 PM   #37
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this point. To each their own.
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Old May 22 2013, 05:08 PM   #38
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime?

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
I'm surprised Admiral Marcus wasn't waterboarding him for information.
That's on the BluRay deleted scenes.

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Whoa, never thought of that but.. doesn't that tell us that at some point Prime Spock had the hots for Uhura and now that he sees NuSpock with her it seems a logical choice?

There _was_ some flirting in TOS but nothing ever came of it.
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Old May 22 2013, 05:14 PM   #39
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

In fact, Spock seemed to all but dismiss and ignore it. When Uhura shows the body language of a cat in heat in "The Man Trap," Spock just totally deflects it with his predictable Vulcan logic and cool behavior.

Admittedly that was very early in TOS history (only seven or eight episodes in, and that's including the two pilots) and Spock's character was still being fleshed out, but even then we saw that Spock Prime reacted differently to romantic behavior from his shipmates than his Abramsverse self does.
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Old May 22 2013, 05:23 PM   #40
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

While having Spock Prime in the movie didn't completely offend me, I think that scene should not have been in there. I liked Leonard Nimoy's exit from Trek in Trek '09, the cameo here was kinda silly.

Plus I thought Nimoy was very strict and gung ho against cameos, that a character should never just be there to be there. Nimoy has always had this thing about characters should always advance the plot or otherwise be dropped. In the TOS movies he directed back in the '80s, he always gave the supporting players key roles to play to move the plot along, they were never just background props. Nimoy refused a cameo in the first TNG movie Generations b/c he felt Spock served no purpose in a flimsy cameo role. I guess he's had a revision on that sentiment.
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Old May 22 2013, 06:17 PM   #41
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

I'm fine with the cameo and here's why:

1. Calling Spock prime is research. At this point in the film, Spock is interested in Khan's character. Is he a decent but misguided person, or an untrustworthy SOB?!? Spock prime personally knows Khan so he would be considered a primary source. He probably knows more about the person of Khan than a secondary-source such as the Encyclopedia of Starfleet.

2. It's more fun watching a conversation with Nimoy than having someone stare at the ship's database.

3. (SPOILER) It serves a very distinct purpose of tying this film to Wrath of Khan. Everything that happens between this point and the point where Khan flies his ship into San Francisco parallels WoK with Kirk and Spock doing "what you would have done for me."

The above said, I'd hope (and imagine) that Spock prime will not become a crutch for the Enterprise crew in future films.
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Old May 22 2013, 07:20 PM   #42
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

^No reason he should, he's now made it clear he won't divulge future events.

He is essentially speaking for TPTB saying; we are going to continue mining the original canon for whatever we want so don't go expecting complete originality anytime soon.

Okay, fine. It is theirs to do with as they please. So long as it remains fun I am on-board.
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Old May 22 2013, 08:59 PM   #43
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
did Nero's arrival erase photographs from the 1990s?
No, but it erased memory of canon from the writers.
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Old May 22 2013, 09:35 PM   #44
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

Joby wrote: View Post
While having Spock Prime in the movie didn't completely offend me, I think that scene should not have been in there. I liked Leonard Nimoy's exit from Trek in Trek '09, the cameo here was kinda silly.

Plus I thought Nimoy was very strict and gung ho against cameos, that a character should never just be there to be there. Nimoy has always had this thing about characters should always advance the plot or otherwise be dropped. In the TOS movies he directed back in the '80s, he always gave the supporting players key roles to play to move the plot along, they were never just background props. Nimoy refused a cameo in the first TNG movie Generations b/c he felt Spock served no purpose in a flimsy cameo role. I guess he's had a revision on that sentiment.
I don't know - as I said, I think Spock Prime will have a bigger part in the next film - showing his work on New Vulcan and completing his character arc. If so, this was a simple 'Hey, I'm still around' for the character - it established that he was still on New Vulcan and is just a stepping stone to the next film.
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Old May 22 2013, 10:01 PM   #45
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Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

teacake wrote: View Post
Whoa, never thought of that but.. doesn't that tell us that at some point Prime Spock had the hots for Uhura and now that he sees NuSpock with her it seems a logical choice?
teacake just invented Spock/Spock/Uhura slash fiction. OR would they have to fight each other to the death first? Either way, it's very creative.

ONESPOCK "It's only logical for all of us to have a freaky-deekie threesome."
TWOSPOCK "I am forced to concur. Uhura, do you also concur?"

Bonus: Which SpockVoice do you hear for the above exchange?

Interesting topic, BTW. I guess JJSpock would have mentioned PrimeSpock in the report to Starfleet after Trek09. Then Starfleet would have decided whether or not to distribute it to the news services. Probably not.

Ultimately (and perhaps this is a separate issue) why should PrimeSpock care about contaminating the timeline as he claims to want to avoid? Why isn't he more focused on correcting the timeline? Instead he is the founder of the New Vulcan colony, is he not?

So what's PrimeSpock's ultimate angle, protecting the Prime timeline or allowing the current timeline to unfold as is?

The truth is this: From what I could gather from Into Darkness, PrimeSpock is as interested to what happens in this timeline as the rest of us, the audience. PrimeSpock is the audience. He just sits back and watches. It seems implied to me that PrimeSpock dishes all the goods on Khan and co. as the scene changes mid conversation.
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