RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,202
Posts: 5,346,362
Members: 24,604
Currently online: 581
Newest member: LanCo96

TrekToday headlines

Funko Mini Spock
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

IDW Publishing Comic Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

A Baby For Saldana
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

Klingon Beer Arrives In The US
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Star Trek: Prelude To Axanar
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Abrams Announces Star Wars: Force For Change Sweepstakes
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

New Funko Trek Figure
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Saldana As A Role Model
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

San Diego Comic-Con Trek Fan Guide
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Cumberbatch As Turing
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 141 19.11%
A 160 21.68%
A- 99 13.41%
B+ 82 11.11%
B 58 7.86%
B- 27 3.66%
C+ 40 5.42%
C 38 5.15%
C- 24 3.25%
D+ 11 1.49%
D 13 1.76%
D- 10 1.36%
F 35 4.74%
Voters: 738. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 22 2013, 01:33 AM   #3451
J. Allen
Best Pony™
 
J. Allen's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Send a message via ICQ to J. Allen Send a message via AIM to J. Allen Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to J. Allen Send a message via Yahoo to J. Allen
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I loved Scotty's outfit in the bar, myself.
__________________
:: :: ::
Visit Brony Kingdom, where all of your wildest dreams will come true.
:: :: ::
-=- My Patron Saint is Twilight Sparkle -=-
J. Allen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 01:34 AM   #3452
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Kirk and Gaila should've been sitting on a sofa discussing Bible passages.
Goddamn right they should've!
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 01:43 AM   #3453
CorporalClegg
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
I think you misunderstand. I come here because I LIKE to see different viewpoints than my own. I want my views of Trek challenged. If we all thought the same way, there'd be little reason to come here.
Exactly. If someone calls you out for your bullshit, stand up for yourself.

And since Timewalker is probably still watching:

Timewalker wrote: View Post
As for Shakespeare... I do prefer my Shakespeare as traditional as possible, but Classic Star Trek did its nods to Shakespeare quite well.
Except I said, "Melville, Dickens, and Shakespeare."

Meyer quoted the former two extensively in TWOK for no other reason than he couldn't think of anything better.

He also gave us a bad guy whose whole shtick was to just quote Shakespeare. The guy didn't have an original thought of his own. And, had the character not been in the hands of one of the all-time great actors, would probably be a meme of its own now.

Is this necessarily bad? No. But let's not make it out to be more than it is.

As far as the radiation chamber scene in STiD, I thought it was fucking brilliant. As I've said before it was, at its core, just a John Bradfordesque visual paradox. But there was a deeper meaning than that to it.

As many have said, nuVerse is really a love story between Kirk and Spock. This visual cue here when juxtaposed with that in TWOK demonstrates that the two men are just haves of a greater whole. And however you scramble them up in whatever reality you're in, they belong together.

Or, as some dude once said:

"Strangers passing in the street
By chance two separate glances meet
And I am you and what I see is me
And do I take you by the hand
And lead you through the land
And help me understand the best I can"

Sums up the JJverse pretty spot-on IMO.
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 01:49 AM   #3454
Blue_Trek
Captain
 
Blue_Trek's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I wonder if Timewalkers perspective opinion holds that TMP is better than either ST09 or STID ?
__________________
You are fully capable of deciding your own destiny, the question is, which path will you choose? (Sarek)
Blue_Trek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 01:51 AM   #3455
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Blue_Trek wrote: View Post
I wonder if Timewalkers perspective opinion holds that TMP is better than either ST09 or STID ?
Better?

I actually still rank it and The Undiscovered Country higher than the two Abrams movies.
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 01:57 AM   #3456
Blue_Trek
Captain
 
Blue_Trek's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Blue_Trek wrote: View Post
I wonder if Timewalkers perspective opinion holds that TMP is better than either ST09 or STID ?
Better?

I actually still rank it and The Undiscovered Country higher than the two Abrams movies.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess.
Personally I can't see me ever ranking the TMP higher than any Trek movie ever, now or into the future, yup it was that bad too me.
__________________
You are fully capable of deciding your own destiny, the question is, which path will you choose? (Sarek)
Blue_Trek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 02:18 AM   #3457
Captain Kathryn
Commodore
 
Captain Kathryn's Avatar
 
Location: In Star Trek / Doctor Who fantasy land aka New Jersey
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Captain Kathryn
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
teacake, your avatar is... disturbing.
It's awesome!
__________________
Assimilate more Janeway...among other stuff! Captain Kathryn's Tumblr
Captain Kathryn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 02:22 AM   #3458
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
trevanian's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I think you misunderstand. I come here because I LIKE to see different viewpoints than my own. I want my views of Trek challenged. If we all thought the same way, there'd be little reason to come here.
Exactly. If someone calls you out for your bullshit, stand up for yourself.

And since Timewalker is probably still watching:

Timewalker wrote: View Post
As for Shakespeare... I do prefer my Shakespeare as traditional as possible, but Classic Star Trek did its nods to Shakespeare quite well.
Except I said, "Melville, Dickens, and Shakespeare."

Meyer quoted the former two extensively in TWOK for no other reason than he couldn't think of anything better.

He also gave us a bad guy whose whole shtick was to just quote Shakespeare. The guy didn't have an original thought of his own. And, had the character not been in the hands of one of the all-time great actors, would probably be a meme of its own now.
That's being pretty dismissive of the whole "I don't believe in the no-win scenario/I don't like to lose" stuff, which really defined Kirk a bit further than had been previously seen. Meyer does like to do his riffs, but there's actually good dialog in a lot of that as well that does not all owe to Adlai Stevenson or Nixon or earlier greater writers. Facing death was a theme he was working through at that time with his print work, CONFESSIONS OF A HOMING PIGEON, which has a concluding chapter or two that anticipate TWOK in a few ways (I had read the novel before TWOK came out, and immediately reread it afterward, and have probably read it 8 or 9 times since then as well.)

I think I'd fault Meyer more as director than writer on TWOK, in that Khan loses his menace in the last act with all the wide-eyed stuff that verges a bit on comedy. That, coupled with the silly 'mix the antimatter/spread pixiedust over the energizer' business he gave Spock to do, subtracts rather than enhances. But even there it is more than made up for with stuff like the shot of Spock's empty chair on the bridge.
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 02:28 AM   #3459
Belz...
Fleet Captain
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Location: In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Blue_Trek wrote: View Post
I wonder if Timewalkers perspective opinion holds that TMP is better than either ST09 or STID ?
TMP is my second-favourite Trek movie, after TWOK. I find its slow-paced, full-sci-fi plot refreshing. You don't see much of that.

trevanian wrote: View Post
Meyer does like to do his riffs
In fact, the villain in his other movie keeps quoting Shakespeare, too. Why ? No reason.

That, coupled with the silly 'mix the antimatter/spread pixiedust over the energizer' business he gave Spock to do, subtracts rather than enhances. But even there it is more than made up for with stuff like the shot of Spock's empty chair on the bridge.
I'd even venture to say that Kirk's death in Into Darkness is better foreshadowed than Spock's in TWOK. And the latter is my all-time favourite character death scene ever.
__________________
And that's my opinion.

The Onmyouza Theatre: an unofficial international fanclub dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za.
Belz... is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 02:30 AM   #3460
M'Sharak
Definitely Herbert. Maybe.
 
M'Sharak's Avatar
 
Location: Terra Inlandia
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

R. Star wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Just remember - there are probably aspects of Trek that I love and you don't. And you're just as entitled to think what I like is crap.
I wish more people would take this to heart.
R. Star wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
I wish more people would take this to heart.
But if you're unwilling to have your views challenged, why post on a message board to begin with?
Challenged? Do you think this is some sort of game where we keep score of who wins and loses? A novel concept I come here on a discussion board... to discuss Star Trek.

It's a pity so many seem to be personally invested in trying to force others to adopt their opinions.
R. Star, this is at least the third thread in this forum, over the last day or so, in which you've tried to complain about some sort of active bias by which the tendering of a dissenting opinion opens one up to being personally abused or to being forced to adopt a "correct" opinion.

You're doing it wrong.

If you believe you have a legitimate and specific complaint about another poster, or that a post's content is in violation of a specific board rule, then what you should do is to make use of the "Notify moderator" button on the post in question or to contact the forum moderator by PM. What you should not do is to repeatedly air vague complaints in the middle of active threads which are about something else. This is not the appropriate forum for that, and I'd like it very much if I didn't see you do it here again.

Blue_Trek wrote: View Post
I wonder if Timewalkers perspective opinion holds that TMP is better than either ST09 or STID ?
Let's not wind that clock up again, shall we?
__________________
Dinosaurs are just really, really big chickens.
M'Sharak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 02:31 AM   #3461
M'Sharak
Definitely Herbert. Maybe.
 
M'Sharak's Avatar
 
Location: Terra Inlandia
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

xortex wrote: View Post
I'm thinking that the real Trekkies did need a good smack in the face now.
Warning for trolling. Comments to PM.
__________________
Dinosaurs are just really, really big chickens.
M'Sharak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 02:42 AM   #3462
CorporalClegg
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalClegg's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

trevanian wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I think you misunderstand. I come here because I LIKE to see different viewpoints than my own. I want my views of Trek challenged. If we all thought the same way, there'd be little reason to come here.
Exactly. If someone calls you out for your bullshit, stand up for yourself.

And since Timewalker is probably still watching:

Timewalker wrote: View Post
As for Shakespeare... I do prefer my Shakespeare as traditional as possible, but Classic Star Trek did its nods to Shakespeare quite well.
Except I said, "Melville, Dickens, and Shakespeare."

Meyer quoted the former two extensively in TWOK for no other reason than he couldn't think of anything better.

He also gave us a bad guy whose whole shtick was to just quote Shakespeare. The guy didn't have an original thought of his own. And, had the character not been in the hands of one of the all-time great actors, would probably be a meme of its own now.
That's being pretty dismissive of the whole "I don't believe in the no-win scenario/I don't like to lose" stuff, which really defined Kirk a bit further than had been previously seen. Meyer does like to do his riffs, but there's actually good dialog in a lot of that as well that does not all owe to Adlai Stevenson or Nixon or earlier greater writers. Facing death was a theme he was working through at that time with his print work, CONFESSIONS OF A HOMING PIGEON, which has a concluding chapter or two that anticipate TWOK in a few ways (I had read the novel before TWOK came out, and immediately reread it afterward, and have probably read it 8 or 9 times since then as well.)

I think I'd fault Meyer more as director than writer on TWOK, in that Khan loses his menace in the last act with all the wide-eyed stuff that verges a bit on comedy. That, coupled with the silly 'mix the antimatter/spread pixiedust over the energizer' business he gave Spock to do, subtracts rather than enhances. But even there it is more than made up for with stuff like the shot of Spock's empty chair on the bridge.
Err, the "Guy who just quoted Shakespeare and didn't have an original thought of his own" was Chang.

I think Khan pretty much stuck to Melville and Dickens.

Either way, my argument was (again) to point out the hypocrisy people display when they suggest, if the movie they like does something, it's good. But when the movie they don't like does the exact same thing, it's bad.
CorporalClegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 02:45 AM   #3463
BillJ
Admiral
 
BillJ's Avatar
 
Location: In the 23rd Century...
View BillJ's Twitter Profile
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I call it the 'Trekkie Paradox'!
__________________
"I had no idea you were so... formidable. " - Anan 7 to James T. Kirk, A Taste of Armageddon
BillJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 02:51 AM   #3464
throwback
Captain
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I recognize that inconsistency have always been a feature of stories. The ancient Greeks and Roman referred to continuity errors in Homer's works as Homeric nods. The issue I have with this story is not with the technology nor the visuals. I have an issue with narrative logic, character motivations, and world building.

And, I do feel that people who do have issues with this film are being attacked by those who like the film. I have seen many disparaging comments lobbed by the latter toward the former. I bear no hatred toward JJ Abrams nor those who worked with him. I think some of the blame for lower financial returns can be attributed to a marketing ploy conceived by him that backfired.

I wish JJ Abrams luck on the next Star Wars film. I hope that, for the next Star Trek film, that we will have a writer or a team of writers that can write a story that has a strong narrative logic. I don't feel it should be my job as a viewer to ask the questions that should have been asked by the writers. Also, I don't feel it should be my job as a viewer to point out flaws that should have been spotted by the writers. For instance, the distance from the Earth to the Moon. A writer should insure that real world facts are accurate, which can be done by doing a Google check.
throwback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 22 2013, 02:54 AM   #3465
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
trevanian's Avatar
 
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Exactly. If someone calls you out for your bullshit, stand up for yourself.

And since Timewalker is probably still watching:


Except I said, "Melville, Dickens, and Shakespeare."

Meyer quoted the former two extensively in TWOK for no other reason than he couldn't think of anything better.

He also gave us a bad guy whose whole shtick was to just quote Shakespeare. The guy didn't have an original thought of his own. And, had the character not been in the hands of one of the all-time great actors, would probably be a meme of its own now.
That's being pretty dismissive of the whole "I don't believe in the no-win scenario/I don't like to lose" stuff, which really defined Kirk a bit further than had been previously seen. Meyer does like to do his riffs, but there's actually good dialog in a lot of that as well that does not all owe to Adlai Stevenson or Nixon or earlier greater writers. Facing death was a theme he was working through at that time with his print work, CONFESSIONS OF A HOMING PIGEON, which has a concluding chapter or two that anticipate TWOK in a few ways (I had read the novel before TWOK came out, and immediately reread it afterward, and have probably read it 8 or 9 times since then as well.)

I think I'd fault Meyer more as director than writer on TWOK, in that Khan loses his menace in the last act with all the wide-eyed stuff that verges a bit on comedy. That, coupled with the silly 'mix the antimatter/spread pixiedust over the energizer' business he gave Spock to do, subtracts rather than enhances. But even there it is more than made up for with stuff like the shot of Spock's empty chair on the bridge.
Err, the "Guy who just quoted Shakespeare and didn't have an original thought of his own" was Chang.
Maybe proper names need to get worked into your writing a bit more, cuz that that doesn't read at all clearly.

I'm no fan of TUC, but I thought Chang had some interesting colors early on ... the way he tweaks Kirk with the 'willing to give up Starfleet?' bit doesn't owe anything to anyone but the living writers and performer.

I think TUC's overuse of the quotes is in part due to not having enough time to stand back and look at the shooting draft objectively. They were having meltdowns during preproduction as the feature got cancelled and uncancelled, and the script needed another pass, for this and for the whole murder mystery aspect. Then they should have caught it again -- either during dailies or at the rough cut -- and at that point leaving all that 'northern star' crap in was just bad judgement after bad judgement.
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
benedict cumberbatch, grading & discussion, jj abrams

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.